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Raspberry Pi 3 to sport Wi-Fi, Bluetooth LE – first photos emerge

I do hope the Ethernet isn't hanging off the USB on this one.

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... and it would be even better if they did a 2 port model

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Agree.

It's one of the little niggles that hinders the Pi from working really well as a useful NAS.

It does work but it's possible to overwhelm it. That separation of Ethernet and USB would just elevate it to that next level.

Here's hoping...

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I would be surprised given the architecture of BCM2836.

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No SATA ports is another of those "little niggles".

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@Cynical Observer

Can I recommend the Odroid C1+ for that role. The Lan is Gigabit, and it really flies for a such a cheap board.

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Looking at the photos of the PCB I don't think the Wi-Fi can be driven off the USB controller - the chips are on opposite sides of the board, and I believe the USB controller has only 4 ports. No doubt we'll find out on Monday.

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Re: @Cynical Observer

The Odroid-C1 (the C1+ is the same SoC, it just comes with heatsinks) was benchmarked against a Pi2B and it's 10% to 20% faster. It uses A5 cores (vs. A7) so you don't get nearly as much benefit out of the high clock speed as you might expect.

Did they ever really fix the USB problem? The same on that the Pi systems programmers fixed and posted to GitHub and Hardkernel claimed was somehow different on their SoC? (Their solution at the time was to force all USB processing onto one, specific, core.)

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This post has been deleted by its author

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Go

You're a bloody poet - I can tell

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Re: @Cynical Observer

I second the Odroid C1/C1+ not because of the Gigabit LAN but because I've lost 2 x Raspberry Pi 2's because apparently they don't like to be plugged in to PoE switches.

https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=771217#p771217

I've had a Banana Pi, Odroid C1 & Odroid C1+ running fine for a while now without any issues.

They may not have the same support as RPi but I've found no problem in getting a basic Debian running on both a C1 and C1+

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Can it run Windows 10 IOT? Presumably the hardware is supported?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Can it run Windows 10 IOT?

Would anybody actually care if it could? The nice thing about standards is that there are so many to choose from, and the finer networking standards talk about protocols and services, interfaces and models, rather than dictating an implementation. The IoT isn't likely to be any different, and Win10 IoT isn't likely to be relevant.

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Not the role its intended for

It's for educational purposes, if you want to use it as a NAS buy a NAS.

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Re: Can it run Windows 10 IOT?

"Would anybody actually care if it could?"

Lots of people like me would - for the hundreds of millions familiar with Windows and for the millions who are familiar with developing in Visual Studio it's a neat automation / prototyping solution. (Windows IOT and associated tools are free to use). Above all it gives you more choice versus other development options.

After some searching I found that Eben Upton is quoted as saying that the Pi3 can likely run a full version of Windows, so W10 IOT on Pi3 is likely a no brainer, assuming Microsoft want to...

"Upton says the Pi 3 is technically capable of running a full version of Windows - pointing to the similarities of the board's underlying hardware architecture to that of the original Surface RT tablets, which ran a version of Windows 8."

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Re: Not the role its intended for

Yes, it's great to have an educational platform that is buggy. Dropping USB packets left, right and center.

Personally I'd rather have something that woks correctly -but maybe that's just me?

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Re: Can it run Windows 10 IOT? @TheVogon

> Lots of people like me would

But then 'people like you' are Microsoft shills.

> Surface RT tablets, which ran a version of Windows 8.

Windows RT is hardly "a full version of Windows", it is the Windows that doesn't run Windows programs.

> (Windows IOT and associated tools are free to use).

Not really, a requirement is a full Windows 10 PC. Where would I get one of those for free.

> Above all it gives you more choice versus other development options.

It may be another choice, but it doesn't give "more choice". It is 'Universal' (Windows 10 only) UWP, and Azure. ie it is restricted compared to "other development options". It also doesn't access all the Pi features.

Also Win10IoT is only on Pi2 and Pi3. There is no deployment option of the cheaper Pi1 or PiZero, or the Compute module, or many Pi-clones or Pi-alikes. So again that is many less options.

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Re: Can it run Windows 10 IOT? @TheVogon

"But then 'people like you' are Microsoft shills."

I'm a consultant / director - nothing to do with Microsoft, have never worked for them and I don't sell their products.

"Windows RT is hardly "a full version of Windows"

It really was pretty much - Microsoft tried to stop you using Win32 based programs - but the API was there. These differences become irrelevant anyway with Universal Windows Apps, they can potentially run on any platform.

"Not really, a requirement is a full Windows 10 PC. Where would I get one of those for free."

All PCs cost money. 99% of them come with an OEM license included that entitles you to use Windows 10.

"but it doesn't give "more choice""

It does - you can still use the other options you cite.

"Also Win10IoT is only on Pi2 and Pi3. "

This is still more choice that it not being available for Windows 10 IOT!

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Re: Can it run Windows 10 IOT? @TheVogon

> It really was pretty much - Microsoft tried to stop you using Win32 based programs - but the API was there.

_Some_ of the API was there in RT, and it was 'reserved' for MS only use - such as for their cut down Office.

> These differences become irrelevant anyway with Universal Windows Apps, they can potentially run on any platform.

RT couldn't run 'Universal' apps, and "any platform" is "any Windows 10 platform".

> All PCs cost money.

But with a Pi running an actual operating system (rather than a UWP bootloader) there is no need for a PC (that costs money) to do stuff.

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Re: Fail

That was my reaction...really a Pi2B+ rather than a Pi3B.

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Re: Fail

There is an architecture change - from 32bit to 64bit and 900Mhz to 1.2Ghz - https://i.imgur.com/KRRd7OQ.jpg

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Re: Fail

That's either a hell of a good fake, a real "Oops!", or some of the most interesting news of all about the Pi3. If the last, then, yes, "Pi3B" would be the right nomenclature.

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Re: Fail

No mistake. Still 1GB RAM sadly. Looks like something's developing quickly... perhaps for tomorrow's genethliac festivities?..

Broadcom BCM2837 64bit ARMv7 Quad Core Processor running at 1.2GHz

1GB RAM

BCM43143 WiFi on board

Bluetooth Low Energy (BLE) on board

40pin extended GPIO

4x USB2 ports

4 pole Stereo output and Composite video port

Full size HDMI

CSI camera port for connecting the Raspberry Pi camera

DSI display port for connecting the Raspberry Pi touch screen display

Micro SD port for loading your operating system and storing data

Upgraded switched Micro USB power source (now supports up to 2.4 Amps)

Expected to have the same form factor has the Pi 2 Model B, however the LEDs will change position

http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/2020826.pdf

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Re: Fail

Not really a rush. If you go and look at the full FCC photos, there is a label giving a date of "2015-11-23", so this was getting approved by the FCC before the Pi Zero launched.

The "ARMv7" is a mistake. It has to be ARMv8. It's probably a mistake by whatever marketing servo that wrote what you are referencing. (The link pulls up a blank page now, by the way.)

I'm just a bit disappointed that it has only 1GB RAM, but I suspect that will change as prices continue to fall. My biggest question is...what process node? Is this still 40nm or has Broadcom started to do 28nm chips?

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It's ARMv8

According to http://raspi.tv/ the CPU is a ARM Cortex A53 CPU

A look on ARMs own site (linked from the above page) and...

The ARM ARMv8-A Cortex-A53 processor offers a balance between performance and power-efficiency and is capable of seamlessly supporting 32-bit and 64-bit code.

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Angel

Re: Fail

Take an upvote Antonymous if for no other reason that user name : - )

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Re: Fail

"I'm just a bit disappointed that it has only 1GB RAM"

It's still more than 50 times more than my workstation had in 1994, and that could do a whole lot. And felt considerably snappier as a desktop machine than an RPi does.

Perhaps we should ask developers to use less RAM? I.e actually code with some thought.

Just don't use Firefox and you should be fine.

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Re: Fail

Um, cheers AnT... except.. you seem to have hit the wrong button ( < : - ( ·

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Shame

Love the RPi concept as a whole (and have a 1 & 2), just feel that Broadcom aren't really the partner you're looking for...

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Re: Shame

Strange thing to say considering it was Broadcom and the founder's association with them that enabled the whole thing to happen.

Pi 1 to Pi 2 was an evolution of BCM2835 to BCM2836. Who is to say that Pi 3 won't see a BCM2837 with 2 x USB3 (maybe I should check the photos).

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Re: Shame

Really? Can you name another SoC vendor that could compete at this level? ST Micro's just announced it's leaving the STB SoC business.

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Re: Shame

Can you name another SoC vendor that could compete at this level?

Mediatek, can I have my five pounds, ta?

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Anonymous Coward

Correction

That'll be Kingston Upon Hull, City of Culture 2017.

Quite impressed my home town is involved!

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Trollface

Re: Correction

"Kingston Upon Hull, City of Culture 2017"

As in yoghurt

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Trollface

Re: Correction

So, what have you got against yoghurt?

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Hardware tested in Hull

We've all been lubed up there.

Seriously though, a facility to boot off "not" sdcard would be a real boon. Ethernet/iscsi please. The sdcards are a major price factor!

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Re: Hardware tested in Hull

16GB for a fiver SD cards. Not going to be a killer.

The reason everything is on an SD card is to make it harder to brick the thing by messing with it.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Hardware tested in Hull

Nah, that's the least niggly of the niggles. You can boot from a minimalist image on a £2.00 from Amazon sdcard, then immediately mount a better ext4 device as root.

Using my super wizard class photoshop skillz, it looks slightly more like BCM2837RIFBG than BCM2836RIFBG.

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Re: Hardware tested in Hull

If you wanted netboot without SD card wouldn't you need some kind of BIOS? Something which ARM SoCs aren't really famous for.

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Re: Hardware tested in Hull

Well, actually...

The Pi's boot process is like this:

- VC4 turn on.

- VC4 boot rom finds the SD card and loads the VC4 boot image (bootcode.bin).

- The VC4 boot image loads the VC4 OS kernel (start.elf).

- The VC4 OS does all its initialisation and startup.

- The VC4 OS finds and loads the ARM kernel image (kernel.img).

- The VC4 OS turns on the ARM core.

- Your OS boots.

The ARM isn't involved in *any* of the boot process! By the time it gets power, the kernel image is already in memory! The VideoCore IV is doing all the work.

It'd be totally feasible for the Pi Foundation to extend the VideoCore OS (I think it's ThreadX?) to support network boot. But you'd still need an SD card to load it, and I suspect that it doesn't have USB or ethernet drivers, so it'd be a lot of work, and it's closed source anyway.

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Re: Hardware tested in Hull

Really? you're moaning about the cost of SD cards?

i've been buying 128GB Sandisc cards for 16quid!

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When is someone finally gonna put a few (full speed i.e. not via USB) SATA ports on this or any similar product?

I'd absolutely love to (be able to) replace my aging but nicely compact 4-bay NAS box's proprietary brain with a much faster and far more useful/configurable Raspberry Pi or other small but powerful Linux board.

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You mean like Intel's Minnowboards? They got widely panned here, seemingly for not being a Rapsberry Pi. And coming from Intel. Knee jerk reactions aside, they are actually quite useful boards if real amounts of I/O are your thing.

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Cubierboard 1 and 2, Banana Pi....or any other board based on the Allwinner A10 or A20 SoCs. There have been boards with SATA II out there for over 3 years.

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"They got widely panned here, seemingly for not being a Rapsberry Pi."

No, shipmate, they got widely panned for claiming to be a competitor to the Pi while being THREE TIMES THE PRICE. In other words, Intel completely missed the point.

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No, shipmate, they got widely panned for claiming to be a competitor to the Pi while being THREE TIMES THE PRICE. In other words, Intel completely missed the point.

That was an association made here, not by Intel. Which is actually my point - everything remotely similar gets viewed through the prism of the Pi regardless of whether they target the same audience or whether a Pi is even capable of the task in question.

Really, a different class of product comes in at a different price point. This surprises you?

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"In other words, Intel completely missed the point."

Or perhaps you did. Instead of making irrelevant parallels they saw a need and made a product to fill that need. The need here was technical capability rather than being cheap. My laptop costs more than a Rapsberry Pi, yours will too, probably TEN or TWENTY times the price.

YOU WERE FLEECED!!!!

Or maybe not, since the two address entirely different needs.

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They could have added a faster 64bit Dual-Core SoC with 2GB RAM

Or are they planning doing that for the Pi 6 or Pi 7 ?

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