back to article UK carrier Three in network-wide ad-block shock

Three UK and Three Italia are to offer network-level ad-blocking software from startup Shine Technologies to their customers. The telcos have implemented Shine’s ads blocker in the UK and Italy with plans for rapid rollout in Three’s other markets. The carriers are owned by Hong Kong-based CK Hutchison Holdings, which has …

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  1. Known Hero
    Thumb Up

    Well done three

    to receive ads that are “relevant and interesting"

    Although I'm sure your motives are Evil, but as they say fight Evil with Evil ... wait .......

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Well done three

      I go to the internets for no better reasons that to watch "relevant and interesting ads". I positively can't live without them, and then, cherry on top, those irrelevant and shite ones, with a wide spectrum in between...

    2. Cynical Observer
      Trollface

      Re: Well done three

      ads that are “relevant and interesting"

      Who would like to bet that those relevant and interesting ads come from an approved whitelist of advertisers?

      1. Trigonoceps occipitalis

        Re: Well done three

        Who would like to bet that those relevant and interesting ads come from an approved whitelist of paying advertisers?

        FTFY

        1. Roq D. Kasba

          Re: Well done three

          Ads blocked is the step before ads replaced. With network supercookie tracking, to get those targeted ads.

          Ok I paint a distopian picture but bet you a quid if I've thought of it, the network has.

    3. Roland6 Silver badge

      Re: Well done three

      Now I wonder when EE will make a similar announcement - http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/11/23/ee_plans_to_block_annoying_ads_on_mobile_network/

    4. Kurt Meyer

      Re: UK carrier three

      There's me thinking; "Queen Elizabeth, Prince of Wales, ... I wonder what they'll name the third?"

      Here's a vote for "Ark Royal"

      1. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge
        Thumb Up

        Re: UK carrier three

        Here's a vote for "Ark Royal"

        ...as long as it's Nuclear powered with steam or preferably electromagnetic catapults.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: UK carrier three

        Here's a vote for "Ark Royal"

        Not "Tee Mobile"?

        1. Otto is a bear.

          Re: UK carrier three

          What about bringing back "Hermes", and an old joke.

          My mate said he was suffering from Hermes. Surly he meant Herpes. No he was a carrier.

          1. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge

            Re: UK carrier three

            @Otto is a bear.

            former HMS Hermes (R12) is still sailing

            INS Viraat - the vessel in the middle here...

            http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/india/12143870/Indian-Navy-shows-off-its-military-might-at-International-Fleet-Review.html

      3. DrBobMatthews

        Re: UK carrier three

        Phil The Greek?

    5. Vimes

      Re: Well done three

      Seems more like an effort to charge multiple times for the same internet access.

      As for the rest, Three have past form. They've already shared information with US based service via Bluecoat and their US based servers.

      https://patrick.seurre.com/?p=42

      Now they're using an Israeli based company with apparently strong links to the US. What could possibly go wrong with that? For that matter if they do engage in sharing data outside the EU then what consent will they get from customers *before* sharing starts when there is no Safe Harbour and the so-called Privacy Shield is a complete joke?

  2. td0s

    so three are just going to implment their own version of blowfish by the sound of it

  3. Electron Shepherd
    Unhappy

    Still slurping...

    I'd love to see an explanation of how they can deliver "relevant" advertising without capturing and storing personal information that otherwise wouldn't be needed.

    1. Headley_Grange Silver badge

      Re: Still slurping...

      "I'd love to see an explanation of how they can deliver "relevant" advertising without capturing and storing personal information that otherwise wouldn't be needed."

      Me too, but I'm still waiting to see how they deliver relevant advertising when they *do* capture and store relevant information.

    2. Cynical Observer
      FAIL

      Re: Still slurping...

      In one sense this is every bit as bad as the Phorm trial. Back then BT used packet inspection to determine what ads were "relevant"

      Even though Three might be stripping much of the advertising crud that is on the network, making a decision regarding relevant ads based on packet content could get them into the same sort of hot water.

      Suspect that in the end it might come down to an approved list of advertisers a la AdBlockPlus

      1. Someone Else Silver badge
        Happy

        Re: Still slurping...

        Well, couldn't Three simply ask the user what s/he thinks is "relevant", and build a profile from the responses? (So long, of course, as one of the responses is: I don't want to see one fucking ad, period, bitch!)

        (That, naturally, would be my response....)

        1. Roq D. Kasba

          Re: Still slurping...

          I'm wondering how they plan to inspect HTTPS traffic, targeting adverts requires context knowledge, so MITM spoofed certs?! Eek!

          1. Danny 14

            Re: Still slurping...

            Who said the ads were relevant to you based on your habits? They are relevant to you based on who pays three to serve them to you.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Still slurping...

        > In one sense this is every bit as bad as the Phorm trial

        Me dear lad, you seem to forget that the problem with the Phorm thing was that it was done without the user's knowledge or consent. Whereas this is a service that you can opt into (at least in Italy it is opt-in, I saw a brochure not long ago).

        > Suspect that in the end it might come down to an approved list of advertisers a la AdBlockPlus

        Why would that be a problem? Especially when, with ABP, you can decide whether or not to allow those approved ads through. Advertising in itself is not a bad thing, it's the clunky, abusive, and annoying way it's often done that puts people off.

        1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

          Re: Still slurping...

          "Advertising in itself is not a bad thing, it's the clunky, abusive, and annoying way it's often done that puts people off."

          A distinction without a difference.

    3. Ian Michael Gumby

      @ E Shep Re: Still slurping...

      You have two issues.

      1) Delivering 'relevant ads' could be translated to mean "Ads sent by the telco not the original site. Read this to mean more revenue for the carrier.

      2) What makes you think that the carriers aren't already monitoring your traffic?

  4. Aitor 1

    Block three

    I can understand that users use adblock, as I have used it myself, and these days I just don't have flash and don't go to several websites.

    But blocking ads at network level? probably illegal, but most certainly bad idea. I would block all traffic from three.

    1. TechnoTechno

      Re: Block three

      Love to hear your reasoning how blocking ads is illegal. Unless they receive money from the advertisers direct why should they waste bandwidth and people's time showing them?

      1. Oliver Mayes

        Re: Block three

        I'd assume illegal in the sense of interfering with network traffic between the user and their destination. Even if it's something benign like stripping ads out of a webpage there's probably some law somewhere that classifies this as intercepting potentially confidential information.

        1. andykb3

          Re: Block three

          So they make it opt-in.

          Then Three can point to the fact that the consumer made an informed choice to use the ad-blocking software. After all, the consumer would have to choose the "I agree" box below a 15000-word legalese agreement that they read in the 2 seconds it took them to click that "I agree" button.

          I can see the logic that it would be illegal to read or modify that data without the user's consent (unless you are one of Edward Snowden's former colleagues) but less so if the consumer has actively requested it.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Block three

          Sorry but that's not at all logical. My telco, if I had one, knows where my traffic is coming from.

          1. Cynical Observer

            Re: Block three

            Regarding where traffic originates from

            .... so much of it comes from Akamai or other content delivery networks.

            I just don't see how source knowledge in itself helps determine a useful filtering strategy.

            1. edge_e
              Holmes

              Re: Block three

              I just don't see how source knowledge in itself helps determine a useful filtering strategy.

              I suggest you add a couple entries to your hosts file and see how effective source blocking is at ad reduction.

        3. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Block three

          how is BLOCKING ads that would otherwise flow through the network, more of an interception of "potentially confidential information" than not blocking them? :)

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Block three

      > But blocking ads at network level? probably illegal, but most certainly bad idea.

      Remember that there are no absolutes in law. With that said, if it is done with the user's free and informed consent, it should be kosher, according to my half semester of computer law (and that's all the authority I can pull in this subject!)

      With that proviso, why would it be a bad idea though?

  5. James 51

    Was a toss up between three or vodafone for my next contract (three with unlimited but network managed data for £20 and vodafone with 20gb of data for £20 as well but not managed). This might just swing it three's way.

    1. Danny 14

      Id say the fact that vodafone are shite might swing it more.

  6. Simon Rockman

    A couple of comments.

    Shine's major investor is Hutchison.

    They have a business model which creates revenue for the telco by getting advertisers to pay to let ads through the block.

    "Relevant" means people who've paid.

    Simon.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      So AdBlock Plus basically?

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Thank you Simon

      For the avoidance of doubt:

      when you write

      "Relevant" means people who've paid.

      do you mean

      "Relevant advertising" means adverts that the advertiser has paid the telco for, so that the network level blocking will not obstruct the adverts in question

      Clarification very welcome.

      I'm thinking an earlier version of the Shine scheme used the screen space freed up by blocking ads to deliver telco-selected adverts. Or is that just left over memory from the Phorm era?

      edit: How does this work properly in the era when much (most?) advertising is delivered by Google and other ad-flinging outfits, rather than directly by the individual advertisers concerned?

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      "Relevant" means people who've paid.

      Yes. And this is about fighting net neutrality in the advertising space, because most users don't like ads, and therefore there's nobody to defend the concept of neutrality. Of course, if ad supported sites find this a problem, and start blocking Three, then it does become a neutrality issue that the users will care about. But in the meantime, Three hope to "monetise" ad streaming over and above the data allowances that users have paid for and in theory already pay for the (largely unwanted) ads.

      Basically, Three want to be paid twice for the same thing, which is nice work if you can get it. If they want to make it fair, then lets see them ignore all ads when calculating data usage for mobile customers.

      In the wider scheme, its the same pressure as causing Vodafone to sack its few remaining UK workers, or EE to jump into BT's arms: the City (in EE's case not the City of London) want growth from their telecoms babies. With average users only wanting a dumb pipe and a phone on lease purchase there's not much growth, and pressure on pricing for the commodity service. So the only option is to try and cut costs further, or constrict the pipe and then flog an "upgraded" service to ad slingers (today, users next year?).

      1. Roland6 Silver badge

        Basically, Three want to be paid twice for the same thing, which is nice work if you can get it.

        That's how newspapers etc work. If it enables an ISP to offer a better service or maintain their prices to customers then that I suggest is a good thing.

        Remember it is the customer who is, currently, paying for the mobile data service, not the advertiser...

        Aside: El Reg published this about Shine's proposition last year: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/09/07/you_should_not_be_paying_for_ads_please_buy_our_software/

      2. Paul Crawford Silver badge

        @ Ledswinger

        There is more to this than simply the goal of 3 to get additional payments (the "fighting net neutrality in the advertising space") as mobile networks are generally congested and if they can cut bandwidth use for *everyone* by around 30% or more due to blocking bloated ads, then it will help end users a lot.

        While I have no sympathy for advertisers due to the highly intrusive and resource-hogging sh*t they push, I do have reservations about what this will mean long-term for equal access if only the big hosts can pay to push their sh*t.

      3. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        "Basically, Three want to be paid twice for the same thing, which is nice work if you can get it. If they want to make it fair, then lets see them ignore all ads when calculating data usage for mobile customers."

        A scheme whereby the customer pays for the 2Kb of content and the advertiser pays for the 2Mb of advertising seems a reasonable scheme. And if the advertiser decides that that's too much they can either stop advertising altogether or devise simpler ads.

      4. Steven Roper

        I've often heard it said that people always have two reasons for doing something: the good reason, and the real reason. So we have "protecting our customers' privacy from intrusive advertising." That's the good reason.

        "And this is about fighting net neutrality in the advertising space, because most users don't like ads, and therefore there's nobody to defend the concept of neutrality."

        Aaaaand... there's the real reason.

        My first thought on reading this article was "this is an attempt to establish a precedent for undermining net neutrality." It's no secret that telcos hate net neutrality and have been fighting it for years, because it blocks them from milking some potentially massive revenue streams. So if they can implement a system whereby they can apply their anti-net-neut principles to something that everyone hates and thus gain popular support for it, they have a precedent they can use to violate net neutrality on multiple other fronts - and suddenly webmasters will be paying subs to ISPs to allow customers to view their sites.

        I believe the threat to net neutrality this move poses far exceeds the threat posed by advertising. People can already block ads by installing ad blockers; they don't need their ISPs to do it for them. This needs to be opposed, and brought to the attention of the net-neutrality enforcement institutions.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      relevant in a positive way for their business model. After all, why not stop and grab a piece of cake that floats under your nose?

      mind you, I'd be weary of stopping and grabbing anything that floats close by, but hey, what do I know, I'm not a multi-national corporation...

  7. djstardust

    Feel at home

    Is also blocked at network level. Traffic from abroad is sent back to the UK and the likes of spotify, Play Store and Google Maps are filtered then throttled to death so they don't work (although Three deny this and blame the local networks which include Three)

    This is nothing new for Three.

    1. Duffy Moon

      Re: Feel at home

      Does that still happen if you use a VPN?

    2. Dr Potatohead

      Re: Feel at home

      Gnnnnaaaaa. Feel at home is a waste of time for data in my experience. Can just about use it for to check email when not on wifi but other than that, its useless. No facetime, no spotify, certainly no casual browsing and no 4g (although prob not 3 at fault there? but so what if everything is throttled to a crawl). Maps are almost useable if absolutely lost. At least you can call someone in the UK and tell them you are lost for free so Feel at home does work well in other ways.

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    end of the "FREE"?

    It could be interesting, apart from the cuddles and punches going behind the scenes, I wonder what Google would do to combat this. Perhaps a curt F... OFF!!! message similar to that show on google maps, when you block flash? Or a "bend over or pay us" offer when you install or run their "free" software?

  9. x 7

    assuming the ad-blocking is on Three's servers, not at the client level, how much data bandwidth would this save?

    and is this another example of faked root certs redirecting/intercepting traffic, only this time the Israelis are telling us about it in advance?

    1. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge

      3 might not save much in the way of internet data, but the important commodity to them is mobile bandwidth. Which is limited by radio spectrum and how many transmitters they wish to build. So that's a real financial saving. Especially as in the cenre of big cities, so may customers are using data that they often struggle to maintain performance. The only other solution to which is smaller cells, and more towers. That costs lots more than a few chunky servers.

  10. djstardust

    Just fancy that .....

    The blocking technology is provided by Israeli start-up Shine, the shareholders of which include Horizon Ventures, the investment fund of Asia’s richest person Li Ka-shing. Ka-shing is the chairman of Hutchison Whampoa, one of the world’s biggest telecommunications groups.

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