back to article How to help a user who can't find the Start button or the keyboard?

Welcome again to On-Call, our regular look at the things readers have been asked to do on duty as paid fixer-uppers. This week, reader “Raoul” writes from Germany, where in the early 1990s he worked as a customer support guy at a commercial bank. Raoul's lot included on-site support as well as picking up help desk calls, one …

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  1. hplasm
    Facepalm

    Some people....

    Really need to be put out to pasture.

    With prejudice.

    1. Steve 114
      FAIL

      Re: Some people....

      Fun joke, but arrogance? Maybe the boss was told there was a 'helpline' for the 'new payments system'? Maybe he rang it to find out how to make a payment without a computer. A German will do nothing unless properly trained, and evidently they'd let him down.

      1. Anonymous Custard
        Trollface

        Re: Some people....

        Manager: No. I don't trust computers

        Or possibly a more accurate translation - "I've not been trusted to have enough intelligence to be allowed to have a computer." ?

      2. joshimitsu

        Re: Some people....

        His query was “could not get the payment orders to work”.

        If he wasn't clear how to get it to work he would have asked something like "how do I make the payments".

  2. RIBrsiq
    Holmes

    Start Button -- which came about with Windows 95 -- not found "in the early 1990s".

    Sounds reasonable, to me.

    But entertaining yarn, nonetheless. Thank you.

    1. Stuart 22

      Start Button

      Yep, it could be me at the other end ...

      When I get the inevitable "Microsoft have reported your PC has a virus" phone call on a dull day I rather enjoy playing up to it on the basis the longer I can keep them on the line the less chance they will be fleecing some poor vulnerable person.

      A standard part of the script is press the START button. They never check you are running Windows first. So starts a rather difficult discussion on exactly where this button is and what it looks like and why the windows key doesn't work. As long as you sound really dim they sense easy prey and hence are blind to spotting you are having 'em on.

      "Oh but I have a funny button there with a K on it ..." KDE users will appreciate where the conversation goes from here.

      1. RIBrsiq
        Thumb Up

        Re: Start Button

        @Stuart 22:

        Thank you, kind Sir.

        Your valiant efforts protecting the vulnerable from being ruthlessly fleeced are duly noted and appreciated. I will try to keep your idea in mind, should a similar opportunity arise... Might pretend I still have a DESQView installation and see how that goes.

        And KDE is indeed rather nice.

        1. TRT Silver badge

          Re: Start Button

          Ah! So removing it from Windows was all part of Microsoft's anti-scamming drive. Maybe I've misjudged them over it.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Start Button

        @Stuart 22

        Yep, I've done that. It's awesome fun.

        A variant of the "I don't see a start button" game is to tell them you have Internet Explorer open and let them give you the URL they will inevitably give you to download their payload. Then start running a whole bunch of scans on their server and tell them about all the interesting ports they have open: "Oh, I see you're running windows server. That's brave of you. Ooh, and you have the filesharing ports open!". For bonus points, download their javascript, analyse it, and tell them what buggy crap it is, pointing out where they should be using try/catch.

        Strangely, at this point, they tend to lose interest in helping you fix your computer, and go away.

        1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

          Re: Start Button

          "For bonus points, download their javascript, analyse it, and tell them what buggy crap it is, pointing out where they should be using try/catch."

          I've started a similar thing with spam offers to improve my website. I correct the English in their email and ask them why I'd trust somebody who writes such crap to work on my (non-existent) website.

      3. a_yank_lurker

        Re: Start Button

        @Stuart 22 - How about a customized MATE. Thanks for keeping the slime away from victims.

        1. lorisarvendu

          Re: Start Button

          The Microsoft Virus Scammers have got wise to the fact that other operating systems exist besides Windows. Sadly their attempt to identify which OS you are running seems to consist of asking you if you have a key with a Windows symbol on it. They have not yet grasped the concept that such a keyboard can still be connected to a computer running Linux, and so I can cheerfully waste 30 minutes of their time taking them through a KDE desktop. The frustration in their voice when their Windows remote control executable refuses to run is a joy to hear.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Start Button

            I agree keeping them on the line as long as possible is my goal but to stop from being too bored i try to get words in to the conversation without them twigging. first is always "The computer says NO" in the best Little Britain impression i can.

            I also record the conversations for Posterity...

        2. Soruk

          Re: Start Button

          I run IceWM - fast, lightweight, and even has a semblance of a Start button. IIRC one of the many themes available for it label the button as such.

          Of course another alternative could be Fvwm95.

      4. Lars Silver badge
        Coat

        Re: Start Button

        Yes Stuart 22, But then again what was there for you to gain. Who ever they are selling what ever they sell they are probably under payed and hoping to find something better to do. So why fuck with them. It's not that I don't get disturbed by those phone calls but I cut them off with something like "sorry I am broke" or "my wife took all my money" or "I am just going to jail" or whatever. Why should I fuck with them. You mentioned KDE and that reminds me of something that happened to me some five years ago. On my journey to the country side I stopped in a town and got a dongle for my laptop. Hell if I got that working, but I did phone that ISP and having spent 10 sec him assuming a Windows problem I told him I use such and such Linux distribution, and to my surprise he was a Linux user at home if not at work and promised to phone me the next day. And that he did, and it was all RFM due to me but then again the RFM was on the internet. Am I getting old, fuck yes, but on the phone no.

      5. philthane

        Re: Start Button

        I also use KDE and had the Broken Windows call in 2011. Luckily I have a voice recorder on my phone:

        http://pthane.co.uk/broken-windows/

  3. chivo243 Silver badge

    Land line joke

    This sounds like the old landline joke:

    A friend once called me, we chatted for a minute, then he pipes up, where are you? *awkward silence* Where number did you call?

    So this guy is calling computer support with out a computer needing help? Frame this one and hang it on the wall!

    1. Sir Runcible Spoon
      Facepalm

      Re: Land line joke

      "Where"

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Trollface

    BOFH on the line.

    Did this occur on 1st April perchance?

  5. Tony S

    The disturbing thing is that I actually guessed the problem, before getting to the bottom of the article.

    The really disturbing thing is that the particular situation doesn't surprise me in the least.

    1. Dan 55 Silver badge

      I was guessing that the monitor was off. Being a programmer I'm not cut out for tech support.

      1. Danhalen

        Having done both I would gladly spend an eternity debugging the most awkward of issues than return to the days of tech support.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        I was guessing that the monitor was off. Being a programmer I'm not cut out for tech support.

        I used to love those old 80s/90s ads where they have a bunch of smiling happy young executives huddled around looking at a monitor which clearly is missing its power cable.

    2. Dazed and Confused

      Can't find the keyboard

      I used to support HP-UX back in the late 80s. A lot of our customers used their systems to run CAD packages, typically HP's own one. Most of these people had their workstations configured to boot straight into the CAD package and so never used the keyboard.

      It was typical to get a call where you'd ask the customer to type something and there'd be this awkward silence.

      Me: Do you know where the keyboard is

      Customer: Errr I think it's around the back somewhere

      Me: OK can you go and have a look for it.

      Pause: followed by a few banging sounds, some muttering, the occasional swear word then the sound of the phone being picked up.

      Customer: OK got it, now what was it you wanted me to type?

      ...

      Eventually you'd get them to having a terminal window

      ...

      Me: Lets start by find out where you are on the system, please type p w d

      Awkward silence

      Me: OK you'll find the "p" key on the top row of letters at the right hand end

      Customer: Errr

      KER CHUNK!

      Me: Now you'll find the "w" key towards the left hand side, but still on the top row of letters

      KER CHUNK!

      and so on

      Talking them through a "vi" session was so much fun.

      Of course keyboards were do much tougher back then, the modern ones would probably have cracked in two halfway though the first command.

      Can't really blame most of the customers, they'd bought a fancy new drawing board as far as they were concerned. Things like keyboards were just a distraction.

  6. wolfetone Silver badge
    Gimp

    Best I can come up with is about 12 months ago when I worked for a charity in the UK as their IT Manager. I should name and shame, but the BCFH (Bastard CEO From Hell) with her arse licking "Comms" Manager aren't afraid to use charity money to throw lawyer balls around.

    Anyway, I had to deal with 1500 volunteers who used various systems but to them this seemed to extend to all sorts of IT support. The one call rang me up and spoke to me like an arsehole because obviously it's my fault that her computer doesn't work. 5 minutes in to this conversation she's trying to print something off and her printer doesn't work. I told her that if her printer isn't working it isn't my place to fix it as it's her own personal printer - not one given to her by the charity.

    Transpired anyway that she was trying to print off her laptop and that she hadn't plugged the USB cable in. But you know that was still my fault. And it was my fault that she had to print something off to fill out and return it to the charity even though I had built an online portal for the charity for this information to be filled out on. But she doesn't like computers, she doesn't know how to use them, and that I should be training her how to use it.

    I don't know how I spent 3 years working in that place with cockwombles like her.

    1. Captain Scarlet
      Alert

      She found you and learnt how to downvote!

      1. Arctic fox
        Thumb Up

        She found you and learnt how to downvote!

        Thumbs up for that one Captain Scarlet!

      2. wolfetone Silver badge

        "She found you and learnt how to downvote!"

        I bet she bloody has too! I'm going to have to find out who stuck 50p in the idiot aren't I :(

    2. Quortney Fortensplibe
      Thumb Up

      Upvote purely for the use of "cockwomble".

      It's been far too long since it graced these learned pages.

      1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge
        Happy

        Upvote purely for the use of "cockwomble".

        It's been far too long since it graced these learned pages.

        Agreed! It's been at least 48 hours! Unless you are reading the "wrong" comments sections :-)

  7. AustinTX

    Can't click any of the things on the screen

    Reminds me of when I did Dell tech support. One lady asking for help adjusting her monitor WOULD NOT STOP trying to mouse the on-screen menus. I'd get her to do one thing using the buttons on the frame, then her hand would apparently shoot back to the mouse for another playful round of "nothing happens".

    1. werdsmith Silver badge

      Re: Can't click any of the things on the screen

      I've heard of people asking for a bigger mouse mat because with their small one their pointer can't reach the whole screen.

      1. This post has been deleted by its author

        1. Thoy
          Unhappy

          Re: Can't click any of the things on the screen

          You mean they don't ??

          Is that why there is all that paper on the floor ??

      2. Rich 11

        Re: Can't click any of the things on the screen

        I've heard of people asking for a bigger mouse mat because with their small one their pointer can't reach the whole screen.

        Hmm. I sense a business opportunity involving the production of widescreen mouse mats.

        1. Boothy
          Happy

          Re: Can't click any of the things on the screen

          Quote: Hmm. I sense a business opportunity involving the production of widescreen mouse mats.

          Don't forget to brand them as HD Ready.

          You can then get them to upgrade to the True HD version later on, and then even later still, to the Ultra HD version. :-)

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Can't click any of the things on the screen

          Already done

          http://www.allsop.com/mousepads-and-wrist-rests/widescreen-mouse-pad-black/

      3. Scott Wheeler

        Re: Can't click any of the things on the screen

        > I've heard of people asking for a bigger mouse mat because with their

        > small one their pointer can't reach the whole screen.

        Well what's wrong with that? Would you want to spend all day lifting your mouse and re-placing it under the circumstances? Yes, you know that it's possible to "gear up" the mouse movements. They don't, so a larger mouse mat is a reasonable solution from their point of view. And since it would actually work, what's the problem?

      4. Myvekk

        Re: Can't click any of the things on the screen

        [quote]I've heard of people asking for a bigger mouse mat because with their small one their pointer can't reach the whole screen.[/quote]

        No no! They need a SMALLER mouse, so that it can go 'further' on the same size mouse mat!

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    My personal input.

    Customer: My little box that i click to launch my word processor has gone off my screen.

    Me, Can you see the "my Computer" icon on the desktop?

    Customer, what do you mean "Desktop"?

    Me: The main picture on your screen where you launch your program from after your computer has started uo..

    Customer. Oh yes, i think can see it.

    Me, right can you put the mouse pointer over it and double click the left mouse button.

    Customer. What does double click mean.

    Me. Sigh, i'll come out...

    Sometimes, the time spent pissing around on a phone call is wasted. Just go to the job..

    1. Charles 9

      Re: My personal input.

      I once recall a "better fool" call where a guy talked to a customer who blatantly asked, "What's a mouse?"

      1. apepper

        Re: My personal input.

        Well, I was present when one IT manager described a "gadget that moved a pointer on the screen"; I said I thought that was a "mouse" - but that was in 1982 - about a year before the Apple Lisa or the Microsoft Mouse appeared.

        1. TheOldBear

          Re: My personal input.

          [quote]

          Well, I was present when one IT manager described a "gadget that moved a pointer on the screen"; I said I thought that was a "mouse" - but that was in 1982 - about a year before the Apple Lisa or the Microsoft Mouse appeared.

          [/quote]

          Could have been a digitizer puck on a CAD workstation, or even an early mouse driven environment like Visi On or Epson Valdocs

        2. DropBear
          Trollface

          Re: My personal input.

          "gadget that moved a pointer on the screen"

          You must be new to this: light pen, obviously...

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Facepalm

    If I were in Raoul's shoes…

    Raoul: If you would use your brain for a minute…

    Manager: It's not there.

    1. Fatman
      Joke

      Re: If I were in Raoul's shoes…

      <quote>

      If I were in Raoul's shoes…

      Raoul: If you would use your brain for a minute…

      Manager: It's not there I have shit for brains.

      </quote>

      FTFY!!!!! (and more likely the case).

    2. Vic

      Re: If I were in Raoul's shoes…

      If you would use your brain for a minute…

      Sadly, comments like that tend to get you sacked[1]...

      Vic.

      [1] No, I don't speak from experience. But it was a close thing...

  10. Allicorn

    Doing some basic IT training for classes of novice adults at a college I asked folks to point at the Word Perfect icon (yeah it was... a while ago) with the mouse and one feller physically held the mouse to the screen and then glanced around awkwardly with that "Am I doing this right?" look on his face.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Many moons ago when I worked at Escom (remember them UKers?) I had a guy do exactly the same thing so it wasn't that uncommon.

      I also had someone ask about a printer - B&W inkjet. He asked whether it could print with a single colour background. I got him to clarify and he said something like "Print with black text but on a red page". I said that you could put whatever colour paper in you wanted if you wanted a coloured background, thinking this can't be what he meant. He said "So I can buy red paper and feed it in and it will come out red when it prints", I did confirm that it will print black text or pictures onto red paper and he was quite amazed... Still sounds as weird now as it did then, but he really did not seem to understand that coloured paper doesn't turn white when you put it in a Black and White (yes, yes pedant monochrome...) printer.

      1. Shades

        "I worked at Escom (remember them UKers?)"

        I remember them well.

        Signed: An Amiga fan

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