Some Vegetables are more equal than others...
So now the vegans and eco-freaks will be telling us WHICH vegetables we can eat. They will not give up their war-on-meat over lettuce and cucumbers.
Lettuce-nibbling veggies menace Mother Earth
In most agreeable news for those of us who prefer wrapping our laughing gear round a solid bacon sarnie to nibbling a light salad, US boffins have concluded that switching to a vegetarian diet might actually increase "energy use, water use and greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions". That's according to a team from Carnegie Mellon …
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Tuesday 15th December 2015 17:40 GMT Anonymous Coward
Strawy man, strawy man, does whatever a straw, er, can...
"So now the vegans and eco-freaks will be telling us WHICH vegetables we can eat."
Calm down dear. It's only a clickbait article and the strawman vegans you're frightened will steal your guns (even if you're not American) and take over the world will surely be too weak from eating nothing but lettuce and celery anyway! (#)
"Eating lettuce is over three times worse in greenhouse gas emissions [per calorie] than eating bacon."
Seriously, that's like pointing out that "energy efficient" lightbulbs actually require *more* electricity to heat your house than the old tungsten ones. True, and intentionally missing the point.
No-one in their right mind- not even actual, real-world, eco-freak commie vegetarian vegans- eats lettuce for the sodding calories. If it has a selling point, it's the lack of them.
Mostly it's used for filler, texture and/or vitamins. Not calories.
Disclaimer: Not even a vegetarian, let alone a vegan.
(#) In all seriousness, I'm actually curious if you could get enough energy to survive on solely by eating an unlimited supply of lettuce, accounting for the energy you'd have to put in to that activity and any other minimal requirements necessary for life.
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Tuesday 15th December 2015 19:03 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Strawy man, strawy man, does whatever a straw, er, can...
"I'm actually curious if you could get enough energy to survive on solely by eating an unlimited supply of lettuce"
The answer is no. Not even raw meat is enough to sustain us. We're too dependent on cooking and the way it liberates calories in food. Check out Catching Fire. Aside from the main hypothesis, the author cites a few controlled environment experiments on people that proved all people will eventually starve to death on a completely raw diet of anything. That's the gist, anyway.
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Tuesday 15th December 2015 19:34 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Strawy man, strawy man, does whatever a straw, er, can...
IIRC one person did do a fully natural "fresh fruit and veg" diet. They were required to eat large portions 3 times a day, graze as well, supplement with nuts and mushrooms, and wear jumpers.
But theoretically, should global warming turn out planet into a wonderful tropics where food grows plentifully, as long as we graze like Gelada ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gelada ) all day long, we will do pretty well.
Beer, because it's better use of the hops, and goes well with the meat! ;)
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Tuesday 15th December 2015 22:05 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Strawy man, strawy man, does whatever a straw, er, can...
@TechnicalBen; True, but I was specifically talking about lettuce, and only really whether it even had enough calories to keep you alive, since it's so marginal in that sense.
I've absolutely no doubt it would be possible to get sufficient calories- regardless of anything else- from fruit and veg alone if you were allowed the likes of (e.g.) bananas. Just by eating one you can tell that they're full of sugar and starch, albeit in a way that's probably better for you than a Mars bar.
Lettuce, though? Different kettle of fish.
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Tuesday 15th December 2015 22:02 GMT Pompous Git
Re: Strawy man, strawy man, does whatever a straw, er, can...
Check out Catching Fire. Aside from the main hypothesis, the author cites a few controlled environment experiments on people that proved all people will eventually starve to death on a completely raw diet of anything.
More pointedly raw foodies become infertile; the women stop menstruating and the men stop producing sperm. Good thing, too!
Heartily recommend Catching Fire BTW. It's a great read.
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Wednesday 16th December 2015 23:50 GMT P. Lee
Re: Strawy man, strawy man, does whatever a straw, er, can...
Was a crazy research result expected? Check out the funding source, The Coleman Foundation.
Why yes, yes it was.
The first item on their "Funding Interests" page: http://colcomfdn.org/funding-interests/
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The Foundation supports efforts to significantly reduce immigration levels in the U.S., recognizing that population growth in America is fueled primarily by mass immigration.*
* Based on U.S. Census Bureau data, immigrants and their children account for 75% of the nation’s population growth.
---
The Coleman foundation, working hard to erase the inscription on the Statue of Liberty, since 1996.
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Thursday 17th December 2015 14:54 GMT Jack Faust meets Mephistopheles
Re: Strawy man, strawy man, does whatever a straw, er, can...
Excellent read that Catching Fire, thanks very much for sharing, it will be great to share with some raw foody evangelists I know.
Like anything though I wanted to see a few anaylsis of the book and they all mostly agree that his conclusions seem both plausible and the studies doen statistically significant. If anyones interested here is one I had a good old skim through! http://soar.wichita.edu/bitstream/handle/10057/3896/LAJ_2010_21-26.pdf?sequence=1
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Wednesday 16th December 2015 13:07 GMT myhandler
Re: Strawy man, strawy man, does whatever a straw, er, can...
RE:"In all seriousness, I'm actually curious if you could get enough energy to survive on solely by eating an unlimited supply of lettuce"
Some lettuce species contain a soporific, so everyone would be dozing off with no need for energy : perfect solution.
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Wednesday 16th December 2015 17:55 GMT maros
Re: Some Vegetables are more equal than others...
This is the most ridiculous research I have ever heard of. In the third world, poor people can't afford meat. They eat grains. For protein, beans. 4 kg per capita of meat in Congo, against 130 kg of USA a year. Oh and this research include cheese and fish. Doesn't sound vegan to me.
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Tuesday 15th December 2015 16:05 GMT Pompous Git
The threat to humanity posed by the T is yet to be determined. Got be up there with celery, though.
Most modern celery varieties have been bred to be high in psoralens, a chemical manufactured by celery to deter insect pests. This results in a very nasty rash for many farm workers harvesting the crop. To date I have never heard of occupational exposure to tomatoes being a concern.
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Tuesday 15th December 2015 18:01 GMT Pompous Git
Are there any long term studies regarding growing, harvesting, and consumption of tomatoes, given they are related to nightshade ?
Tomatoes are a rich source of lycopene, a carotenoid known to play an important role in human health. The Git's ageing prostate gland benefits greatly from lycopene and saw palmetto. Tomatoes, eggplants, capsicums, chili peppers and potatoes are also members of the nightshade family. They have been grown for hundreds of years in the West and thousands in their native habitat. Apart from capsicain burns from careless ahndling of chilies, internal haemorraging from eating raw potatoes and solanine poisoning from eating greened potatoes I've never heard of any problems. They all contain nicotinic acid since tobacco is also a close relative, but don't tell the do-gooderesses or they will be calling for an immediate ban on them.
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Tuesday 15th December 2015 22:55 GMT Doctor Syntax
"Are there any long term studies regarding growing, harvesting, and consumption of tomatoes, given they are related to nightshade ?"
As are spuds. The fruit of spuds look rather like tomatoes but are poisonous as they contain alkaloids similar to those of nightshade. Spuds also develop alkaloids if they're exposed to sunlight & turn green. The vegetative parts of tomatoes also contain alkaloids. OTOH many commercially produced tomatoes seem to contain little but water.
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Wednesday 16th December 2015 11:01 GMT Tom 7
Nightshade and spuds..
Deadly Nightshade has high levels of Atropine that can kill you in large quantities. Its also called belladonna because taken in small quantities it widens the pupils making you more attractive.
Its the same family of plants as spuds and tomatoes both of which contain some of the same type of chemicals but in low quantities. If you eat green spuds they contain more and may give you stomach cramps and the shits.
One plant we have here in the SW is black nightshade with produces vast amounts of berries and many people abroad swear makes a lovely jam and no problems, Others run around saying poison poison and I haven't had the courage to try it and the price of a chemical assay is beyond my willing means. It may be one of these things that people no longer eat because it was really easy to grow and so 'working class' as many of our lost foods were.
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Tuesday 15th December 2015 17:11 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: @Pompous Git
"To date I have never heard of occupational exposure to tomatoes being a concern."
FWIW, I did some tomato-picking as a yoof and the plants en-masse produce pollen which turns black on contact; makes you smell of essence of tomato for quite some time; ensures that you have to throw your picking clothes out and (in my case at least) left me with a loathing of tomatoes that lasted the best part of a decade.
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Wednesday 16th December 2015 11:07 GMT Tom 7
Re: @Pompous Git
Its not the pollen that turns you black - healthy tomatoes produce lots of nearly microscopic yellow beads of sticky fluid along their stalks. This is to deter and actually trap and eat insects a la sundew!!
Its this liquid rubbing off on you that goes black and smelly.
The pollen is quite hard to get out of the flowers - they actually resonate at the frequency of the wing beat of the bee that natively pollinates them so when they land they effectively violently shake the pollen out of the flower.
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Wednesday 16th December 2015 21:46 GMT Pompous Git
Re: @Pompous Git
The pollen is quite hard to get out of the flowers- they actually resonate at the frequency of the wing beat of the bee that natively pollinates them so when they land they effectively violently shake the pollen out of the flower.
There ya go. Who'da thunkit? Most tomato growers find that gentle shaking of greenhouse tomatoes mid-morning works. The flowers are complete (have both male and female parts) so the pollen doesn't need to leave the flower. Outdoors, the plants are shaken by what many of us call "wind". Commercial growers who beleive we don't get enough extra hormones in our diet from chicken, milk, soya products etc use a spray of Tomset.
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Wednesday 16th December 2015 05:43 GMT Sherrie Ludwig
To date I have never heard of occupational exposure to tomatoes being a concern
Tomato plants (stems and leaves) are covered with little spikey hairs that can raise a pretty ugly rash on exposed skin. As a gardener, I have to use gloves to pick tomatoes, but I don't react to poison ivy. (At least, not yet).
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Wednesday 16th December 2015 21:22 GMT Pompous Git
And parsnips are phototoxic, so are best harvested in the dark.
Photosensitivity can result from touching or eating other plants, including celery, dill, fennel, fig, lime, parsley, arnica, artichoke, chrysanthemum, dandelion, lettuce, endive, marigold, and sunflower. Oh nose; the truth has finally been exposed! Nothing's safe any more!!!!
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Tuesday 15th December 2015 19:33 GMT J.G.Harston
Re: Celery!
Nearly, A stick of celery contains about 6 calories, and you expend about 0.6 calories to eat and digest it. However, it's fairly bulky per calorie contained so if you fill your stomach with it you would only be able to physically fit in a very small calorie amount. If you really want to go that way, eat grass as the human stomach can't digest it at all.
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Tuesday 15th December 2015 15:57 GMT Pompous Git
I'd have thought the T of the BLT would have been as bad as cucumbers.
Tomatoes are considerably higher in solids than cucumbers. Last summer I grew a modern commercial hybrid cucumber for the first time. It was producing 2 to 3 300 mm long cukes per day for many weeks, far more than SWMBO and I could eat and at least twice the weight of fruit than the tomato plants. So I traded the excess with the local cafe for what are called "Big Breakfasts": bacon, eggs, toast, sausages, mushrooms and a slice of tomato.
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Tuesday 15th December 2015 16:29 GMT Anonymous Coward
how did they taste then?
I've stopped growing those hybrids/fast growing types in my garden. They tasted awful when compared to slow growing varieties that were grown alongside the new ones.
my veggis plot is totally organic. Nettles produce a mean liquid fertilizer as does my worm farm. Three big compost bins (soon to be a 4th) take care of all that side of things.
Bacon? yummy. As is the half leg of mutton that I cooked yesterday. Shop bought lamb is tasteless compared to that.
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Tuesday 15th December 2015 17:19 GMT Pompous Git
Re: how did they taste then?
Oddly enough those cukes tasted just fine. Mostly I grow old fashioned varieties for the very reasons you cite. My favourite tomatoes are Amish Paste for example. But, it's not necessarily the case that modern varieties are relatively tasteless. The tomato breeders assure me that they will shortly have tomato varieties that are as tough as buggery so they will transport well, but also have all the flavour of Grosse Lisse, or Rouge de Marmande. I'm not holding my breath though...
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Biting the hand that feeds IT
