"Anyone relying on Outlook for their email is in for a nasty surprise."
Pause Patch Tuesday downloads, buggy code can kill Outlook
The El Reg inbox has been flooded with reports of a serious cock-up by Microsoft's patching squad, with one of Tuesday's fixes causing killer problems for Outlook. "We are looking into reports from some customers who are experiencing difficulties with Outlook after installing Windows KB 3097877. An immediate review is under …
COMMENTS
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Thursday 12th November 2015 04:56 GMT Bitbeisser
Sorry Bubba, but seem to be off the track here. The problem does not effect Windows 10 users apparently, only Windows 7 and Windows 8.1, as the update in question (KB3097877) is pushed as a "security update for Windows", which does not seem to apply to Windows 10.
And contrary to the article, it does not seem to effect Outlook 2007 either, only Outlook 2010 and Outlook 2013, and according to a recent post in the patchmanagement mailing list, Outlook 365.
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Thursday 12th November 2015 21:32 GMT Mpeler
Sorry "sorry Bubba"
While you're correcting everyone, the word is "affect" not "effect".
I effected a change in the MicroBork software which affected Outlook; this was an undesired effect of crappy QA.
Considering what Microsoft has been doing with forced updates, perhaps "infect" would be appropriate.
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Wednesday 11th November 2015 23:49 GMT dan1980
@AC
"It's an Outlook issue, not a Windows 10 issue."
True. BUT, this incident does relate to Win 10 in that it is further proof - should any be needed - that forced updates are a horrible, horrible idea.
Forced updates can only even barely be justified (and even then, still not) if there is an iron-clad guarantee that no update will ever break anything or remove any feature or setting that was there in the past. But, as that is not only unlikely but actually impossible, forced updates are unworkable.
It is distinctly anti-consumer to force them to accept changes to the products they are paying for, especially when these changes are aimed more at aligning with MS's businesses strategies (cloud + mobile first) than with costumer needs or considerations.
The move to a web-based interface for Exchange 2013 was for the benefit of Office 365, as is the removal of manual Exchange account configuration in Outlook 2016, as was the decision to make 'cloud' storage the default save location in Office 2013, as is the nearly-forced update to Windows 10.
That's a little off-topic but only a very little; forced updates mean that customers maintain little to no control over the software they have purchased and are instead at the mercy of Microsoft. Sure, someone might be happy with all of the changes now (not me, mind), but what happens when they get a different CEO with different priorities?
As I said, just really horrible.
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Thursday 12th November 2015 14:21 GMT War President
"True. BUT, this incident does relate to Win 10 in that it is further proof - should any be needed - that forced updates are a horrible, horrible idea."
Ah yes, forced updates. Microsoft has shown me the way! I've turned off ALL updates from Microsoft on my personal Windows 7 Pro machines, thanks to Microsoft destroying any trust they might've had by pushing Windows 10 style spying/tracking/telemetry malware onto PCs.
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Thursday 12th November 2015 21:45 GMT Mpeler
Like the ants in "The Once and Future King"
Sounds like "The Once and Future King" by T.H. White, although Bill Gates would probably say EVERYTHING is compulsory:
The place where he was seemed like a great field of boulders, with a flattened fortress at one end of it--between the glass plates. The fortress was entered by tunnels in the rock, and, over the entrance to each tunnel, there was a notice which said:
EVERYTHING NOT FORBIDDEN IS COMPULSORY
He read the notice with dislike, though he did not understand its meaning. He thought to himself: I will explore a little, before going in. For some reason the notice gave him a reluctance to go, making the rough tunnel look sinister.
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Thursday 12th November 2015 09:46 GMT David Austin
OK, then...
I'm as happy as anyone to give Microsoft Flack for some of the insane things they've done over the years, but Outlook is probably my favourite program, and certainly my most important: Since the 2003 version with the preview re-design and the improved search, it's been my Day-to-day life organiser with Emails, Contacts, and calendars.
When it comes to upgrade time, I consider it to be a Microsoft Outlook license, rather than a Microsoft Office license - 2013 was worth the cost for Attachment Reminder alone...
But I'm not averse to change: One thing I've never managed to find when in Linux Land is a suitable replacement for Outlook: Lots of OK email clients, but few that do contacts and calendars, and almost none that play well with Activesync. I'm sure there must be ones out there: Anyone in the El-Reg Hive Mind care to recommend them to avoid any future "Nasty Surprises"...
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Thursday 12th November 2015 18:09 GMT Michael Wojcik
Anyone relying on Outlook for their email has already had a nasty surprise. Likely several of them.
Today's Outlook annoyance: Advanced Find. Select "Search subfolders" - which requires clicking the Browse button, because of course this frequently-useful option couldn't be on the main dialog, because Outlook was written by idiots. Enter search terms and hit Enter. Outlook returns hundreds of hits, nearly all from folders that are neither the selected folder nor any of its subfolders. Utter fucking incompetence. And grep'ing through a set of mbox-format files would have been orders of magnitude faster, as well as offering regex searching.
Outlook is one of the worst MUA I have ever had to suffer with. And I've used perhaps a couple dozen of the things. I've used the VMS mail client. I've used PROFS. I've used horrible web email interfaces. I've used Lotus fucking Notes. But Outlook manages to find new ways to be utterly, horribly, stupidly broken. It can't get basic functionality right, and even then it's absurdly slow.
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Friday 13th November 2015 11:41 GMT Anonymous Coward
couple of weeks before they do similar again
I would Guess 08 December before they mess up again .......... :-(
Oh well extra work for me when i turn off updates for everyone i support and have to manually check and install updates on every machine individually going forward. ( too distributed and different individual users to use WSUS i think) :-(
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Thursday 12th November 2015 18:13 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: it's an ill wind...
Handy that I was off sick today rather than tending to the WSUS approvals.
Only today? Could we hire you?
I don't know who in my organization does WSUS approvals, but my domain-connected machine hasn't seen a Windows Update since mid-September. The last I checked, it had yet to see any of the critical font-handling fixes from this year. My guess is our WSUS approver has been sick, or possibly pining for the fjords, for months.
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Wednesday 11th November 2015 21:34 GMT Anonymous Coward
And that ain't all
Far more problems are being reported than just Outlook crashing - including inability to get past the login screen, and sound problems.
Whether KB3097877 is responsible for all I don't know, but the common theme is failure after yesterday's updates.
Bad QA? Trying to do too many things with their obviously limited resources? Or what?
Whatever - you don't have to be paranoid any more in order to see the value in treating all windows updates with suspicion.
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Thursday 12th November 2015 08:52 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: And that ain't all
I suppose it is a little unfair to criticise the QA department - they only assess processes, not outcomes.
What seems to be the problem here is Quality Control. I think Microsoft's maintainers have been pushed to deliver On Target rather than To Quality.
A modern curse, but it's totally unacceptable when failure means loss of use of a PC.
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Thursday 12th November 2015 17:00 GMT Woodburner
Re: And that ain't all
...and the unbelievably bad idea of pushing out third party hardware driver updates that Microsoft clearly have not tested in any shape or form that pretty much kill legacy AMD graphics cards. You can opt out but need a utility to do so or you need to blanket ban hardware driver updates through Windows Update in advanced settings. https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3073930. Why should a normal user need to dig around on Microsoft's support site to find a utility that delivers functionality that should be (and used to be) in the bloody OS? Nonsense. The Windows update process for consumers is frankly appalling. And as for QA on Windows updates........
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Wednesday 11th November 2015 21:39 GMT Joerg
And Microsoft is forcing updated on customers with Windows10 there is no escape...
... the Windows10 spyware nightmare has just begun.
Keep installing and using Windows10 and having WindowsUpdate turned on by default on Windows and that is what you get from Microsoft...
What a shame!
Microsoft won't be able to release another Windows7 anymore. And not even another WindowsXP.
Windows10 is the worst Windows ever.
Microsoft is getting worse day by day.
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Thursday 12th November 2015 17:42 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: It may just be me--
"But I haven't had the slightest problem with Windows 10 since I installed it the day after it was released."
I decided to take the plunge and got a Win10 licence to try on my network - with DC (Samba4). The domain is set to force Windows Updates to 'Notify Only' by GPO and to my surprise, this applied to Windows 10 too. About an hour after getting settled, a nice full screen popup interrupted me with "Updates are needed" and only a "Get Updates" button. After wasting a bit of time trying to dismiss the dialog I submitted and clicked it.
Thankfully you can just close the updates window that appears, but that behaviour is not something I'm going to push onto my users, being a Linux domain, I don't think I have an option for WSUS - I need to look into that more, but until that can be resolved to my liking, Windows 10 won't be going to the rest of the PCs.
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Thursday 12th November 2015 18:07 GMT Pirate Dave
Re: It may just be me--
"a nice full screen popup interrupted me with "Updates are needed" and only a "Get Updates" button."
I've noticed that too on the one Win10 box I have here. So while it's not exactly required to install the update, they sure make it look like you don't have any option. It's horribly annoying.
Personally, I don't see much major difference from Win 8.x. Sure, there's something they call the Start Menu, but, meh, with no tree structure like classic Windows, it's as useless as the Win 8 Start Screen, just smaller. So overall, just a big "Meh"...
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Monday 16th November 2015 05:34 GMT Kiwi
Re: It may just be me--(methinks it is...)
What is so terrible about that philosophy?
Maybe you need to have a few more experiences of telling someone that the photos of their children or lost loved ones are gone because of a MS screwup.. Or that they have to re-install every bit of software.. Or de-brick their machine, or sort out "dead" network hardware - because windoze 10 can't see a year-old common-as-shit wireless card despite MS's
assuranceslies that it has the best driver support of any OS known to man...A few of these ought to get you singing the "Windows 10 is fucking shit and MS need to die horribly and slowly" tune.
It's shit. Everything about it is shit. It's brain is shit. It's body is shit....
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Monday 16th November 2015 16:34 GMT Diodelogic
Re: It may just be me--(methinks it is...)
You didn't actually say why my philosophy is a bad one. All you said was why you don't like Windows 10. I have yet to see any of the problems you describe, including among the rather large number of people that I know using Windows 10.
Windows 10 is just fine. MS did a good job with it, and I hope they are around for many many years to come.
It's just fine and dandy and your "argument" is what is sad. You are perfectly free to feel otherwise, but that isn't going to change my mind.
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Wednesday 18th November 2015 07:06 GMT Kiwi
Re: It may just be me--(methinks it is...)
Soo... People having lives messed up, massively increased costs (not everyone can get cheap internet), machines inoperative and lost productivity and therefore lost earnings (for many not just lost profits but also the ability to feed their families)..
And you can only say 'your "argument" is what is sad'?
MS's recent behaviour has added a lot of extra pain to the world (MS could've made W10 something you only got if you paid them money instead of quite literally forcing it on people who didn't want it, in many cases couldn't afford the data and in many other cases), and for what?
Many people think it's "just fine" to rape people, destroy lives and so on. That will never make it right even if a number of sickos like it.
There can be no justification for this. MS need to be sued beyond oblivion.
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Wednesday 18th November 2015 18:02 GMT Diodelogic
Re: It may just be me--(methinks it is...)
Kiwi, sorry, but I think you are generalizing terribly. I personally know of no one whose life has been destroyed by Windows, any version, any time. I guess it could somehow happen (though I've no idea how) but I've never heard of such a thing. I have known people who took a Windows computer, junked it, and then suddenly realized that there was, after all, information on the hard drive they really wanted to keep. I don't see how that can be blamed on an operating system.
It's still the individual's choice. If someone is perfectly happy with Windows, then that is their decision, not mine and assuredly not yours. I've seen plenty of people struggle with, say, a Linux installation and eventually just give up and go back to what they like (not necessarily Windows). Did I run up to them and scream that they were fools for trying Linux? Of course not. Were their lives destroyed because Linux was not for them? Of course not.
Are you being a little overboard? I think you are.
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Monday 30th November 2015 05:48 GMT Kiwi
Re: It may just be me--(methinks it is...)
Sorry for the late response - missed this..
However...
Kiwi, sorry, but I think you are generalizing terribly. I personally know of no one whose life has been destroyed by Windows, any version, any time. I guess it could somehow happen (though I've no idea how) but I've never heard of such a thing.
We had a customer who had the update the original article was about hit his work machines. All of them. So for the time they were down (and sadly it took me some time to find the cause since he didn't know which update it was and of course Office updates wouldn't make a machine not boot!) he could not access his data (some special portal software using login data stored only on his work machines, at that time he did not have other backups ("I mean, I have it all on my two office machines and my laptop. Even if the office burnt down I thought I would still be able to get my stuff" - now he has another backup).
He could not work. Therefore he could not earn. Not all of us earn so much that if we are unable to work for a week (not counting the downtime clearing the backlog, and flow-on lost opportunities) we can happily afford to pay the bills and so on. I mean no business and no personal income for a week, still with all the overheads.
I've also seen people who have lost data, and businesses where machines have been totally hosed. Thankfully I am able to fix "clicking" HDD's most of the time.. We had one machine where the drive ceased shortly after first starting 10 (although I have my doubts about that - surely he dropped or spilt or... No signs of damage mind you, machine looks really well cared for...). People have lost data, been taken offline because this MS cloud OS can't handle simple and common network hardware - fracken idjits...
Many people around the world are on borderline earnings. They don't have anything spare to save. Same for most businesses.. A small hiccup can be disaster (yes yes, we should all work harder and save better and bullshitbullshitbullshit - most can't).
MS has created many small disasters. What to you might be "so what, you had no access to your data for a week" to another might be a life-changing job opportunity, or even just an extra job that can put food on their tables for an extra week. It can be even just little unimportant things - a few extra hours at the office stressing over a fucked system when you should be at your son's recital or your daughter's game..
Nothing important.. Maybe no one die.. But a hell of a lot of extra stress and misery, people loosing business opportunities and time with loved ones.. All so they can sell people's private data.
(and to think I normally defend MS update screwups - I understand with the diversity of systems it's pretty hard to cover all possibilities)
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Monday 30th November 2015 16:45 GMT Diodelogic
Re: It may just be me--(methinks it is...)
You are describing some things that are not Windows-related and blaming Windows for the problem. I'm sorry but I still find it difficult to accept that any appreciable portion of Windows users have suffered "life-changing" problems. Equally, I find it difficult to accept that no user of a non-Windows OS hasn't suffered from similar problems.
You have still failed to explain to me why people should not be allowed to choose and use the OS that they want without being condemned and vilified, which was my original post and point. Even though I use Windows, I don't go around ripping into anyone who has a different preference.
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