back to article Only a CNUT would hold back the waves of the sharing economy

The Turtle-Necked Twats are having their bluff called at last. Taxi-hailing app developer Uber has been invited to rejoin the real world and the TNTs are in uproar. London’s transport authority, TfL, has launched a public consultation into private-hire taxi services in England’s capital. As usual, Uber’s TNTs are convinced …

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  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Who's an AC-DC fan then?

    I'll have that song stuck in my head all evening now!

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Correction

      Sharing Sharecropper Economy

      1. BasicChimpTheory

        Re: Correction

        Why did you correct someone who didn't even say the thing you were correcting?

        Oh, I see. You thought your joke was so good it needed to be at the top for all to see.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Correction

          "You thought your joke was so good it needed to be at the top for all to see."

          The thing is, it isn't a joke; it is an insightful remark. Facebook, Twitter, Ueber and the like are all, at bottom, the owners of the land used by the sharecroppers. It's feudalism light for the 21st century. Not surprising that the self-employed businessmen that are London taxi drivers are anti Ueber; it wants to peonise them.

          1. BasicChimpTheory

            Re: Correction

            @Arnaut the less

            Be that as it may (or may not, in real terms, because no one had the option to opt-out of feudalism - but that isn't the point), that does not at all justify the poster's lack of regard for other commenters/comment readers. S/he's bsaically shouted over the top of everyone else because they think their post was too important to sit under commenters that beat them to a response.

            It is unquestionably shitty behaviour, regardless of whether anyone agrees with them or not. Nothing less than A-grade attention-whoring.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Correction

              @ BasicChimpTheory

              Yet you did the exact same thing you are complaining about others doing. How ironic. And predictable.

              1. BasicChimpTheory

                Re: Correction

                How so, AC? In both instances I spoke in direct reply to previous commenter.

                The original AC was clearly directing his comment to the content of the article and yet it quoted a comment that had zero relevance to his/her position.

                1. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  Re: Correction

                  Pretty clear why you have so much trouble keeping a job.

            2. storax

              Re: Correction

              No, it's a tactical use of situational resources. Methinks you perhaps pay too much attention to a-Social Media.

    2. Mark 85

      Re: Who's an AC-DC fan then?

      I thought everyone in the IT trenches was an AC/DC fan. But not the TNT's and manglement types...

      1. launcap Silver badge
        Stop

        Re: Who's an AC-DC fan then?

        > I thought everyone in the IT trenches was an AC/DC fan

        Nope. They are (just about) tolerable in an 'OK for background music' kind of way. Magic Pie - *now* you are talking!

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Who's an AC-DC fan then?

      you had me at Turtle-Necked Twats.

  2. Dan 55 Silver badge
    Thumb Up

    Very good article, would read again

    I am however somewhat concerned that if you put Worstall and anti-Worstall in the same room the universe might explode.

    1. TheOtherHobbes

      Re: Very good article, would read again

      Sounds well worth the attempt.

    2. BasicChimpTheory

      Re: Very good article, would read again

      Bestall?

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Very good article, would read again

      The First Law of Economists: For every economist, there exists an equal and opposite economist.

      The Second Law of Economists: They’re both wrong.

      1. Dan 55 Silver badge

        Re: Very good article, would read again

        But some are more wrong than others.

        1. launcap Silver badge

          Re: Very good article, would read again

          > But some are more wrong than others.

          Except when they are not - in a 'stopped-clock-is-right-sometimes' sort of way.

    4. Alistair Dabbs

      Re: Very good article, would read again

      If this means you are describing me as anti-Worstall, that's possibly the nicest thing anyone has ever said about me. Thank you.

      1. Sarah Balfour

        Re: Very good article, would read again

        As far as I'm concerned, the difference between you and him is that YOUR articles make SENSE! I wouldn't know what side Worstall's on coz I've never understood a fucking thing he's ever written!

        Our local cabbies have been charging Uber prices for aeons; I live around 1.5 miles from the station, but they want £7.50 before midnight and £15 after; I've no option but to cough up because the only way home is across the common, and I don't fancy a chance meeting with Aqualung. Obviously in the summer I'll walk it

        Yes Aqualung, as in Tull, so named by me because he's creepy; I'm 90% certain he's PROBABLY harmless, but I ain't taking the risk, especially as he appears to be an alkie (the area around his campfire is always littered with cans). Not meaning to imply that alkies are inherently violent/rapey, but the booze is probably gonna make him (more) unpredictable. He'll disappear around Hallowe'en/Bonfire Night, and won't return until the weather warms up again - no idea where he goes in the winter.

        So, if it's one of the rare occasions I've been up to the Smoke, and come back late, I've really no option. They're all self-employed and everything is extortionate round here (South Bucks), so I can't really begrudge them, if I could, I'd leave but, sadly, I can't…

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Very good article, would read again

          @ Sarah

          You started off Dabbs but then you went all Worstall and I stopped understanding a blooming thing you were on about...Something about some dodgy geezer called aqua tull who's a bit common and charges too much for his booze? Is it another Uber like app that lets home brewers share their filthy and disgusting brews after the pubs close, or something?

          1. lucki bstard

            Re: Very good article, would read again

            'Is it another Uber like app that lets home brewers share their filthy and disgusting brews after the pubs close, or something?' - That would be a good app. I keep making the stuff (and it's not rubbish) and then not having the time to drink it all.

    5. dotdavid

      Re: Very good article, would read again

      Is Dabbsy really the anti-Worstall? Their opinions of this subject don't seem to be opposed. Worstall seems to like Uber as an antidote to the inefficient rent-seeking that comes from having an arbitrary limited number of taxi licences available, like New York's taxi medallions. I'm not sure whether this is how the London black cab system works; can't anyone become a cab driver by passing the relevant knowledge exams or are there limited "places"?

      1. Nigel Whitfield.

        Re: Very good article, would read again

        London doesn't have the arbitrary hard limit on numbers that cities with a medallion system impose, so in that regard, anyone could become a taxi driver.

        However, the Knowledge takes a while to learn, so to a degree that does slow down the potential for growth in the number of drivers.

        Private hire vehicles (aka mini-cabs) don't have to learn the knowledge, and again there is no fixed limit on the number of people who can register for those.

  3. gilf

    Gett

    Interestingly, gett (http://gett.com/nyc/#business) is not getting the same publicity.

    Reason: it's a boring radio cab service with a usable app.

  4. Dr_N

    Stopping Uber is easy.

    Taxi drivers just have to block the streets and roads:

    The government will then step in and make Uber services illegal, as they have in France. Protecting the existing lazy, overcharging, rule breaking taxi scammers. As they did in France. (€70 for 15min/km airport trip anyone?)

    1. Ilmarinen
      WTF?

      Re: Stopping Uber is easy.

      I've noticed in a couple of articles about Uber that a swarm of downvoters seems to descend. Who they?? Black Cab drivers? Didn't think they could read, let alone interwebs stuff. Maybe they hired some lobyist outfits?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Stopping Uber is easy.

        I've noticed in a couple of articles about Uber that a swarm of downvoters seems to descend. Who they?? Black Cab drivers? Didn't think they could read, let alone interwebs stuff. Maybe they hired some lobyist outfits?

        Maybe they're people that can see through the spin and the BS ladled out in large spoonfuls by mainly US companies who think that making a buck by totally ignoring local regulations is their God given right?

        Uber would not have half the problems it has now if it paid attention to regulation that is there for a good reason, but it has actively attempted to not only bypass them but to tap into the black economy in probably one of the most modern implementations of the Citigroup Plutonomy investment advice ever (recommending to invest either in the very high end or to go for the opposite bottom volume end, which is where Uber plays). It only stopped doing that when it was forced to do so by court order, and even then only grudgingly.

        I'd be the first to cry foul over overburdening regulation and pointless red tape, but I am disadvantaged in that I have seen the consequences of their absence. As a normal human being with some compassion for others (with the exception of traffic wardens and people who can't spell) I cannot agree with what Uber is doing, because they're not into "breaking monopolies" and "disruptive evolution" and all those other buzzwords they use. What that river of BS and verbal diarrhoea is trying to camouflage is that they're crooks and have no problem dangerously cutting corners and endanger you to make a fast buck, at least, that's how I see it.

        There are other taxi apps that try to play it straight. Uber, in my opinion, is not. Thankfully, lawmakers exist that *are* paying attention, also without the baying of taxi drivers who are paying their dues and are licensed properly (it does help, though :) ).

  5. Fraggle850

    There's a little more at stake here

    While Uber may essentially be a private hire taxi company their technology does chip away at the advantage that black cabs traditionally enjoy over private hire: the ability to pick passengers up on the street. Although an Uber driver can no more do this legally than any other private hire operation the nature of their app reduces the time between booking and pick up, to the point where the time/convenience difference in hailing a cab and booking a private hire is negligible. This is what the cabbies really don't like and I gather that they are pushing for a mandatory waiting period of (5 mins IIRC?) on Uber bookings.

    Anyhoo, death to the TNTs! Too many of these slimy facilitators running around stitching people up with tech snake oil.

    1. SuccessCase

      Re: There's a little more at stake here

      This article presents a mildly reasonable argument but is wrong because it misses a key point. Yes Tfl are responsible for reviewing the rules but they have perfectly sensible rules already. You can't hail a Minicab in the street, you have to book it through a mini-cab firm first. You still can't hail an Uber taxi in the street. Now technology simply means the existing booking process is super efficient.

      The sensible reason for not being able to hail a - less regulated than black cab - mini-cab in the street is safety. By having to book via a taxi firm so there is a record and (more likely) a responsible controller running a business with many mini-cabs keeping a record of who is sent where. That, as long as users are aware and expect to follow the rules (which most are) reduces the opportunity for stalkers rapists and muggers being able to pick victims up in the street and drive them off to an evil lair.

      Uber hasn't changed the mini-cab model, you still can't directly hail a mini-cab in the street, it's just made it more efficient, but Tfl are proposing changing the rules by artificially introducing minimum wait times from booking to fulfilment. EBay style in service ratings systems have already been shown to be an effective way to manage and help filter out charlatans. So while there will be teething problems, the system, given the journey is also logged and tracked is already potentially even safer than the average local Minicab firm.

      Now black cab drivers are moaning, and it seems Tfl are proposing making an efficient system less efficient just to help them out. That isn't Tfl doing regulation as usual as Alatair argues, it's protectionism plain and simple. It makes an efficient system less efficient for the economic gain of a vested interest and at the expense of the consumer who likes the fact you can now get black cab efficiency at mini-cab prices. So sorry Alastair, your argument has some good points, but in the final analysis is just plain wrong. Uber aren't paranoid. It is all about them.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: There's a little more at stake here

        EBay style in service ratings systems have already been shown to be an effective way to manage and help filter out charlatans. So while there will be teething problems,

        Your confidence in online ratings is most touching, but rather your wife/girlfriend be the "teething problem" than mine.

        1. SuccessCase

          Re: There's a little more at stake here

          Yer right, so whilst the EBay style rating systems used by sharing economy businesses are not perfect it's still in addition to what you get with your local cab firm, ... And you're talking like you have never booked a mini-cab for one of your loved one's with one of them.

      2. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: There's a little more at stake here

        Why not add some more arbitrary rules

        You can comment on an article but can only write a blog post if your are an NUJ member

        You can use a web browser if you are a cab driver but can only install Windows if you are a member of the BCS and only connect a new computer if your a member of the ACM or IEEE

  6. Ben Liddicott
    1. Fraggle850

      Re: You can buy a chainsaw for that.

      We obviously need protectionist legislation in the chainsaw market then. How else am I going to profit on Dabbsy's suggested business plan?

    2. Proud Father
      Thumb Up

      Re: You can buy a chainsaw for that.

      Whoa! I had no idea a chainsaw would be so cheap.

      Time to finally clear out those Cacodemons in the loft!

      1. Fraggle850

        Re: You can buy a chainsaw for that.

        Hmm... dual-wielding....

        Or even strapped to each end of a pole a la Dead Rising 2

      2. Alistair Dabbs

        Re: You can buy a chainsaw for that.

        Those cheap chainsaws took me by surprise too. I spent a year assisting my tree surgeon brother-in-law for a year while living in France, and it never occurred to me that anything other than the best Stihl models existed.

        1. knightred
          Coat

          Re: You can buy a chainsaw for that.

          I logged a bit as a teen in NorCal, there are actually two brands of chainsaws Stihl and Husquvarna. Brand loyalty is king in the logging world, although you generally follow the lead faller's choice.

          And as in tech contracting, you do your sharpening and routine maintenance when you arrive at a job site, because land owners like to see you there doing something for at least 2 hours before paying 500 to 1000$.

          Ha, that's another business where it pays to hire a licensed, insured, and bonded operator for a job, sure Joe down the street can cut down a tree, but a proper faller can also miss your house, car, garage, etc at least 99% of the time. They can also drop a tree exactly where you swore to hell they told you to stand. Remember to always make sure the axe is sharp and the gas and oil cans are full when you are carrying their gear, oh and never drop their saw, unless of course you're running for your life.

          The jacket has my childhood wonder and innocence lost in it.

        2. 080

          Re: You can buy a chainsaw for that.

          "for a year while living in France"

          And you never noticed the very old, cheap and un-serviced ones the locals were using?

    3. Your alien overlord - fear me

      Re: You can buy a chainsaw for that.

      It comes in frustion free packaging because otherwise I'd need to hire a chainsaw to get it out.

    4. Andy 73 Silver badge

      Re: You can buy a chainsaw for that.

      You can... usually made very cheaply in China, which means increasingly unreliable start, questionable safety brake, poor ergonomics (which actually matters when you're holding a heavy, yet efficient cutting tool) and fragile materials.

      The question is always - spend three times the price on one that should last three times as long, or go cheap? I went cheap.. and at this point the punchline should be that I'm typing this with my one remaining hand. However, I do need to buy a new chainsaw.

      1. Fraggle850

        Re: You can buy a chainsaw for that.

        I did wonder about the quality for that price. I don't know whether I'd trust a really cheap one, if things go titsup with a chainsaw it could end badly. Having said that I do wonder if any of the brand name manufacturers are outsourcing to the same factories that make this sort of thing?

    5. Stixx

      Re: You can buy a chainsaw for that.

      Could I borrow that please ?

  7. Mystic Megabyte
    Holmes

    Screening Minicab drivers

    I used to have a large dog called Bonzo (The name has been changed, I don't want to give out my banking password. Ha! Ha!). He was a real softy and anyone could take him for a walk because he would obey their commands.

    During his entire life he only ever tried to attack one person. I had called a minicab to deliver some kit and the driver had not even fully opened his door when Bonzo decided that he would kill him. I told the dog to go back inside but I realised that he had detected something about this driver that was not right. I looked carefully at this man, gave him the kit and off he went. It was worrying that this guy was driving around London, who knows what my dog had discerned?

    Tl;dr Always travel with a dog

    1. Zimmer
      Joke

      Re: Screening Minicab drivers

      What did the dog discover?... he was probably a moonlighting postman....

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Screening Minicab drivers

      I used to travel with a dog but then I divorced the bitch.

      /s

  8. Fihart

    Mandatory reading for...

    ...housing policy makers.

    The Uber story translates pretty well to the Right2Buy on social housing. In brief, council tenants with no capital buy flats cheap using cash lent by property company. Property company takes flat after three years and lets it out for vastly more than council rents, sometimes renting it back to council to house growing homeless.

    1. Fraggle850

      Re: Mandatory reading for...

      I don't doubt what you say but fail to see the parallels, other than possible TNT involvement in befuddling local authorities?

      1. Fihart

        Re: Mandatory reading for...

        @Fraggle850 I see your objection, but the parallel that struck me was the act of disrupting a system created to meet a long established need (cab licensing, social housing) without any regard to the side-effects.

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