Ahmed's clock wasn't a bomb, but it blew up the 'net and Zuckerberg, Obama want to meet him Support is today pouring in for the nerdy Muslim teen who was cuffed by cops for bringing to school a harmless clock that apparently looked like a bomb seen in movies. And as President Obama, Facebook's Mark Zuckerberg, and other big names, backed the smart lad, and thousands of people tweeted and blogged their support, his …
So are reg reader still huffing and spluttering about privacy rights and playing with chemistry sets now that we have a picture of the device?
Or are you now going to admit that that thing looks EXACTLY like a HUGE bomb?
Err... no. It looks like a clock.
And as for huge...its not exactly huge. It is in a pencil case. The caption even invites to look at the mains plug to get an idea of the scale.
" It is in a pencil case"
er no , its in a briefcase - look at the size of the mains plugs. That big red rectangle (behind which the C4 is hidden ) appears to the 9segment LED display bit - thats about the size of a very, very large pencil case
I'm still not clear if this was homework or if he just rolled up with it out of the blue
I hate to say this, but I'm afraid the police got it right this time. At least, looking at the picture, it looks like a hoax bomb.
Of course, it also looks like a clock. And it is a clock. But can it also be a hoax bomb?
It's definitely not a time bomb. A time bomb is an explosive with a clock to set it off. Since there's no explosive, it's not a time bomb. But the police never claimed it was a time bomb, they claimed it was a hoax bomb. And a hoax bomb doesn't require an explosive. Or to be more accurate, the mere presence of an explosive would disqualify it as a hoax bomb, it would have been a time bomb.
So the police is right, it looks like a hoax bomb. To be more precisely, it looks like a digital clock and that's exactly what a hoax bomb looks like.
However, does that make it a hoax bomb? In my opinion no.
According to Cambridge English Dictionary: a hoax is a plan to deceive someone, such as telling the police there is a bomb somewhere when there is not one.
So for it to not be a clock, but a hoax bomb, Ahmad would have be running around in the school shouting "Bomb Bomb". But probably "Die all you infidels" would also qualify.
I don't know whether he did that, we can't ascertain looking at the picture. But since there are no reports he did, we must assume he didn't.
There fore, the object in the picture looks like a clock and is a clock.
It also looks like a hoax bomb, but it is not a hoax bomb.
Glad I was able to clear that up for you.
it only becomes a hoax bomb once its examined. Just like Schrodingers cat - until you observe the bomb it is in a state of potentially hoax and potentially real.
..and its not a good idea to closely examine bombs held in the hands of potentially radical muslims - even if they are saying "come and have a look at my inordinately large ugly wiry clock contained in a briefcase"
If this were the first incident like this that I had read about recently, I would have given the LE's the benefit of the doubt. However, I read story after story about LE's going after kids who develop an interest in no-go topics such as chemistry, electronics, or rocketry. Last story I read was about a kid who was nearly killed by police because he had an amateur chemistry lab. The problem is that nearly any technology is dual-use in the sense that it can be used to injure people. It takes someone who understands what they're looking at to know the difference. Citizens over the past few years have been encouraged to "contact the authorities" if they see stuff that is suspicious. The implication is that the authorities who respond will have a better understanding of the threat. That simply isn't true when it comes to stuff like this, which is why see-something-say-something snitch campaigns result in these wild overreactions.
At his age (forty years ago) I was into chemistry, optics, photography, electronics, airguns, model aircraft, engines... I was the nerd that multiplied all the quantities by ten in the chemistry lessons, to make sure I got a reaction; the one that painted the inside of the fume cupboard blue with, um, unexpected quantities of artificial dyes; the one that played with lasers in physics class; the one that had a shelf full of nasty smells and negatives; the one who flew planes into cliffs and model subs into canals. The one who had cats whisker radios and timers and intercoms and clocks and a pile of Everyday Electronics and Practical Wireless a yard high.
I was obviously a danger to society and to myself; to be honest I doubt I survived my teens.
I suspect I was not alone.
I'd guess that 40 years ago it would already have been difficult to get hold of sodium chlorate so you'd have missed out on that as a source of fun.
Evil grin. Not if you lived where I lived. Getting hold of any raw chemical wasn't a problem. I had two other countries nearby to choose from, what I couldn't get in one most likely was available in another. I have cycled many miles in my youth hauling back chemicals you would now probably get shot for if you handed them to a youngster, but we are talking about quite some time ago.
That was fun, although I must admit it's a miracle I escaped mostly unscathed, I guess Guardian Angel duties were not outsourced to idiots yet. There is no better exercise for developing judgement than getting it wrong a few times - the trick is to survive those early mistakes :)
>I suspect I was not alone.
Indeed you were not. I can tick off all of those and EE was the dogs bollocks, mountains of strip board projects. Then there were the acid resist transfers and copper board for etching the circuits. You couild do just about anything with a 555, 741 and a couple of transistors. Great memories.
I think it is the school and police response that seems to be very unbalanced...
I completely agree. To arrest him, given that they could obviously see it was NOT a bomb (the fact that they didn't evacuate the school proves this), was overreaction in the extreme. Similarly, for the school to call the cops without evacuating seems OTT.
It does not matter what, how, who and where. If there is no ongoing incident of the "dead bodies" variety, you are _OBLIGED_ to call the parents first even if you also call the police. Anything else aside, the law requires them to be present if the minor is to be interrogated outside of an "active shooter" context.
I always thought so, too, although I'm no expert on US law (all I know comes from TV shows and the media). I suspect they (ab)used the "terr'ism" laws to justify this...
One look at this kid and the cops nerd alerts should have been going off.
To be honest, this one is a straw man. Do you think that no "nerds" are ever recruited (or coerced/brainwashed/conned) by criminal elements? I still think it was all an insane overreaction, but the fact that a suspect "is a nerd" makes very little difference, just as it should make little difference that he has brown skin.
Bullshit FERPA now exists mostly to allow schools to hide how much they have covered up rape and other investigations.
It always makes me laugh (in a bad way) when I hear people and organisations using privacy laws to cover up wrong doing.
This is how this played out in the local news media: ...
That was a very interesting and informative comment, a rarity on El Reg's forums. Thank you.
It certainly wouldn't surprise me if Obama (or his team) called the local cops and told them to stop being idiots. This kind of response makes the USA look stupid and racist to the rest of the world (as if we need any more ammunition in that argument). I'm not saying all Americans are, but we get very regular news coverage showing at least what appears to be racist and idiotic behaviour. This is just the latest example.
Gauging public risk implies a certain degree of common sense. That seems to have been eliminated from the Gene pool of people that join the police forces in the USofA.
No offence meant to police officers out there, but I think law enforcement tends to attract the wrong people. Cops have a lot of power, but do not need the intelligence required by most positions which give people power, so it will attract power-hungry idiots. Again, no offence to police officers, I know not all are like this, but some are. These are the people who react like this. They are also the type of cop who assumes they know the law and will not budge, even given evidence to the contrary.
I site as a much tamer example the time I was harassed by my landlord and landlady. They tried to evict me with no good reason. When I refused, they started trying to force me out through intimidation. Eventually, it all came to a head when they let themselves in to the house and tried to remove "their property" (as they put it) in the form of all the appliances and furniture.
I called the police. The cops told me it was "a civil matter". I had been prepared for this by CAB. The lady I spoke to there said that she toured police stations letting them know about these laws. I showed them documentation on the laws involved and police guidance on the matter (what they were doing was a criminal offence). The police refused to even acknowledge this, although at least they got my landlords to leave.
50 years ago I took a home-made contraption into my physics class - made of old GPO relays - you had to tap a switch in time with a click - or get 60V up your arm. No problem. Later I built a rocket powered by Sodium Chlorate - which did get me into some trouble when it exploded on takeoff at the beach. Later in life I ended up as Specials Editor for ETI magazine went on to found 80 Micro in the States.
"went on to found 80 Micro in the States."
And a big thank you for that. I had an international subscription for that tombe here in the UK. (Video Genie owner!) Sometimes it arrived a bit tatty and often late, but it did get here eventually into my eager little hands. There were UK magazines too, but 80 Micro was my favourite by a long way, despite the expense. I still have a pile up in the attic.
Probably the most memorable event was the One Liner game competition you ran. There was some very impressive stuff written in just a single line of BASIC. You were the only guys who did reasonably regular hardware projects. I did build the sonar system and the 4 channel music system (similar to Orchestra 80). This why I'm so excited to see kids playing with Raspberry Pis. It brings in the hardware side and real world interaction.
I suspect I was not alone.
Let's just say that I was well aware where the brooms were to sweep the playground once again :)
I started with mechanical clocks, which are wonderful devices for a growing analytical mind to take apart until the moment you get to the spring and the "twooiiing" sound tells you there isn't a hope in hell you'll get that back together again :).
Chemistry was also interesting, mainly because you could Blow Shit Up which is naturally fascinating for any kid - the latter augmented by the fact that I lived pretty close to a border with a nation where pharmacists had no problem with selling chemicals to curious kids, even the ones with, er, "potential" :).
What grabbed me in the end was electronics, and from that on computers, and it's interesting how you collect data as you go along. For instance, I'm old enough to have briefly messed with valves, which were going out of fashion when I started because the transistor had become a mass product (I've basically seen the whole move from transistor to IC to smd to CPUs). Valves were powered by AC, which meant you had a risk of picking up hum on low signals. The solution to this is the exact same solution used in CAT 5 cable to prevent interference: twisting pairs.
Anyway, I recognise the signs. They shouldn't arrest this kid, they should celebrate him. Bloody ingrates.
Oh yes. Me too. Had the chemistry set, melted lead over open fires and poured it etc.
I was into hobby electronics. In on memorable project I got a circuit diagram for disco lights from a magazine. This used a mains bridge rectifier, which as I remember I bought from that shop in Paddys Market in Glasgow which sold surplus electronics.
The lights worked great, and were used at many parties.
Only later did I realise I had built the mains bridge reccie into a metal box. Opened the box and there were scorch marks where the rectified mains current had been sparking against the box.
That project was certifiably lethal...
In my school years I used to fly R/C model aircraft, and for my GCSE design/technology project I built a mechanism and circuit board to trigger a photographic flash unit to indicate when the engine ran out of fuel (fairly simple, magnets in a disc on the prop shaft, and capacitors to store the charge for the flash). This was all pre 9/11 so neither any of my teachers nor I considered that it could be easily repurposed with the flash replaced by a detonator to go off after the aircraft had been crashed into something... In case the plod are reading, I'm pretty sure the hardware will have long been junked by the school as I didn't keep it myself.
It does not matter what, how, who and where. If there is no ongoing incident of the "dead bodies" variety, you are _OBLIGED_ to call the parents first even if you also call the police. Anything else aside, the law requires them to be present if the minor is to be interrogated outside of an "active shooter" context.
For a stunt like that his mom or dad should have had the school board sack the principal by whatever means necessary - starting from a lawyer and finishing with the applicable professional standards body. Granted, the likelihood of having him sacked in Texas is about nil.
For a stunt like that his mom or dad should have had the school board sack the principal by whatever means necessary - starting from a lawyer and finishing with the applicable professional standards body. Granted, the likelihood of having him sacked in Texas is about nil.
Don't forget the teacher who started all this - this sort of idiocy is a classic example of groupthink. One sheep panics (because of an abject lack of IQ that should never have been allowed *near* vulnerable kids) the rest of the gullible flock gives up any semblance of intelligent, independent thinking and runs bleating for the hills, or in this case the police. Those, in turn, do not exercise the two braincells they appear to share between the whole precinct and go into full terrorist mode instead of having a good laugh and a condescending pat on the head of the principal. I'm amazed any of these people actually manages to get dressed in the morning without help.
It thus appears there is a whole group of people who shouldn't be doing the job they are doing. I'd move all of them for a couple of months to street sweeping duties. If that proves education you could slowly let them near their jobs again, but only if they show evidence of intelligent live somewhere in their cavemen's skulls.
I'd sue the living crap out of the principal, and the police. I'm not sure it's a good idea to sue the school, because that takes away money needed to educate children (and possibly get better teachers).
"One look at this kid and the cops nerd alerts should have been going off. "
Are you suggesting that the cops should PROFILE this kid and see how harmless he is?
Bravo, Sir or Madam! That's exactly what we need here, MORE PROFILING. Then the cops could put their energy into watching the high-risk types. Oh, what's that you say? Can't do that? So the cops are allowed to see how harmless this kid is, but aren't allowed to see how dangerous certain other profiles really are? Okay, but in that case we'll all have to accept more frequent "lone wolf" attacks, I guess...
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>Are you suggesting that the cops should PROFILE this kid and see how harmless he is?
By profile do you mean talk to him for five minutes and take one glance at the device? Its one thing the school overreacted (regrettable but somewhat predictable) but the cops cuffing the kid, arresting and parading him as they took him away are what made this an international news story. The cops are actually paid for their ability to be able to accurately gauge public risk and correctly appraise a situation and boy did they fail their jobs miserably. Outside of racist Texas enclaves they actually do this much better than most people realize.
Wow they actually took him to a juvenile detention center too instead of just holding him until they decided to charge him or his parents came. I guess that's what they always do with kids they don't charge (at least if they are brown). What a bunch of white bred Texas morons.
> "What a bunch of white bred Texas morons."
>>@asdf, you really are a straight up troll, aren't you?
I am an amateur compared to the mayor of Irving Texas (I don't tell the worldwide media those scary muslims are trying to set up Sharia law in hillybilly Arlen Texas). And unlike her I don't make policy decisions. A community gets the leaders it deserves at least in the west.
>"white moron" racism
They are not morons because they are white. They are morons because they are paranoid clueless racists. The only reason white matters at all in this conversation because it obviously does to them. And please don't try to tell me Texas doesn't have a history with racism considering how active even today the KKK is in the state. Much of the state isn't (Austin is more progressive than most of the rest of the US) but there are some hardcore pockets left and this city is one.
> "They are not morons because they are white. They are morons because they are paranoid clueless racists. The only reason white matters at all in this conversation because it obviously does to them."
So, if they are to be labeled as morons by you, these people would insist that they be called "white" morons? Wow, that IS pretty clueless! Good thing there's a smart person like yourself right there to show them up!
>So, if they are to be labeled as morons by you, these people would insist that they be called "white" morons?
No I am sure she would love to be addressed as Grand Wizard if she could pick her title. Hyperbole aside the one thing that doesn't discriminate is ignorance and she and her police department have plenty of it and sadly some racism as well (funny how they go hand in hand). To be fair I sure this does not apply to a sizeable portion of the town obviously (though they did elect her and from what I understand she is actually popular). Just another Texas bastion of bat shit crazy in the powers that be. Good for the rest of the developed world to snicker at and say wow maybe my mayor isn't so bad after all (edit: wow that city is much poorer than I expected, you can't even say well at least her town is prospering) .
Typed the (rather Texan-looking) pseudonym " Big John":
"So, if they are to be labeled as morons by you, these people would insist that they be called "white" morons? Wow, that IS pretty clueless! Good thing there's a smart person like yourself right there to show them up!"
If that's really the best you can put up in their defense... Shouldn't that tell you something?
>this white mayor believes that Islam is a danger to the West
No she believed that Sharia courts had been set up her lovely redder than red town (the town she happens to be mayor of) and were desecrating the home of Them Cowboys all due to a chain letter rumour that was quickly dispelled. Quite the difference.
Honestly, I think you're in the minority to think so. (At least from this post, I mean; I don't know the previous commenter from before, and maybe you do.)
But this specific comment, in the context of the humongous moronity displayed by everyone from the school to the police -- in this case, and especially given the further context of previous similar bullshit in American schools and law enforcement -- looks quite measured and appropriate. I mean, this isn't the first time shit like this has happened: Such utter inability to fricking LEARN anything from previous incidents is pretty much the definition of "moron".
If anything,the comment was a little on the tame side.
HTH!
@ Big John
Hey Big John, y'all a Texian then, gettin' all defensive like.
Reminds me of a bit of graffiti I read about once.
"Texans are living proof that Indians fucked buffalos."
And to think that for a while I lived in Irving, well, actually, Bear Creek, but Irving was our closest shopping mall. Probably not any longer.
P.S. Some native Texans I met were actually quite intelligent.
Gauging public risk implies a certain degree of common sense. That seems to have been eliminated from the Gene pool of people that join the police forces in the USofA.
They seem to have this inate ability to overeact in just about every situation these days. Years ago they might have been a bit more relaxed.
eg Tazering a man wearing only speedo's because 'he might have had a concealed weapon' springs to mind.
They do have to work on what is presented to them and often quickly.
Don't want to think about the speedo's but on this -
When faced with supposedly educated adults including science teachers advising you a device is of significant and immediate danger they might be tempted to isolate the "threat" while assessing the situation.
Don't get me wrong I'm not defending specific actions as portrayed by the small media window to which I have access but it's not just the police, if I walked into a room where everyone was pointing at a hologram of a fire saying fire! I'd have to check a few senses before assuming it was not a fire.
Bring the awareness and education of the public up, then, when extracting police from that pool, things might be different. If the teachers didn't get excited and if the authorities calmly assessed the situation (why didn't the teachers themselves evacuate the immediate area if they truly thought it was a bomb? do you really have to wait for big brother?).
Our fears are encouraged if they fit the compliant society ideal, as a result we may have distorted understanding of real world threats.
You might assume that police officers would get training as to the basic characteristics of an explosive device: timer, detonator, power source and explosive material.
I'm all for caution, but one look at the device tells you that two of the required items are not present.
Yet the police on scene, instead of smiling, patting Ahmed on the back and telling him "best not bring any more of these to school, someone might get the wrong idea", decided the best course of action was to arrest him for "posessing a hoax device".
The stupid is overpowering. With, it's pretty clear, just a touch of "we're going to make sure you never step out of line again"
Quoth Powernumpty: They do have to work on what is presented to them and often quickly. [...] When faced with supposedly educated adults including science teachers advising you a device is of significant and immediate danger they might be tempted to isolate the "threat" while assessing the situation.
Nope, sorry, not buying it. If that was how the police saw it, then why didn't they evacuate the school?
And why would they think these "supposedly educated adults including science teachers" really thought this "device is of significant and immediate danger", when they hadn't evacuated the school already?
The school administrators could have defused the whole thing by calling in the engineering teacher, to whom Ahmed showed the clock when he first got to school (thereby fulfilling any requirement that he notify school authorities). Instead, they convinced themselves that his device was a bomb...wait for it...because it "looked like a movie bomb". It's difficult to comprehend how people in this day and age -- professionals who must have had some kind of training -- could be so damn stupid.
However, they chose not to listen to Ahmed, not to speak with his teacher, and to railroad him. This is not "zero tolerance", this is hammering down the nail that sticks up. When they realised they'd "f'd up", they doubled down, published a press release and had a 14 year old student, who had not committed a crime, arrested on trumped-up charges of "possessing a hoax device".
The school administrators and the police department deserve to be sued for this, and I hope Ahmed and his family can find a lawyer to do this. I read this morning that he's planning to transfer out of the school. Smart decision. Clearly, there's very little education to be had there.
// the FAIL is for the school administration and the police in Irving TX.
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