back to article Don't want to upgrade to Windows 10? You'll download it WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT

Microsoft would really, really, really like you to upgrade to Windows 10. So much so that even if you've opted not to request the upgrade, you'll get it anyway, even if you never intend to install it. The software giant confirmed to The Register on Thursday that it's been pushing out the necessary files for the upgrade to …

Page:

  1. Martin-73 Silver badge

    I am not sure of the law in various parts of the world where microsoft operate

    But I'm pretty sure that in some of them, this activity would be illegal. It is not an update for an operating system, it is an update to a completely DIFFERENT operating system.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I am not sure of the law in various parts of the world where microsoft operate

      Bollocks is it "illegal". How about one example in a sensible jurisdiction to demonstrate your theory?

      MS can do what they like that is covered by the EULA.

      1. GrumpenKraut

        Re: I am not sure of the law in various parts of the world where microsoft operate

        Here in GrumpenLand many US-style EULAs are summarily invalid because of clauses that clash with our law.

      2. Tom 7

        Re: I am not sure of the law in various parts of the world where microsoft operate

        Given that, in many cases, this is likely to fill the hard drive and stop the computer working it is no better than a virus and MS will have to pay for this bigtime.

        1. tabman

          Re: I am not sure of the law in various parts of the world where microsoft operate

          "Given that, in many cases, this is likely to fill the hard drive and stop the computer working it is no better than a virus and MS will have to pay for this bigtime."

          Not really. Yes there will be a small amount of users who use a small drive or small partition for the OS who will have issues. I guess they will have to be extra vigilant or adjust sizes to suit. Unless someone is ghosting the OS drive every night and retaining copies (why???), I cant imagine this would be an issue. Mr Average will have a store bought Win7 or Win 8 pc and I doubt that there will be many who cannot spare 3GB of storage space. I doubt they would even notice the increase in footprint.

          The significant issue here is that this download (which is effectively forced on you) may cause you to exceed an ISP download cap which in some cases may cause a financial or speed penalty to your connection.

          Sure, you can set your connection to metered and Windows 10 is pretty effective at detecting metered connections but those not using wireless who have a metered connection will have a problem here.

          1. drexciya

            Re: I am not sure of the law in various parts of the world where microsoft operate

            Have you ever heard of the WinSxS directory? I reclaimed 10+GB of disk space by cleaning that one up. That took about 30 minutes after the next boot which was quite annoying. Also, your profile and Programdata seem to grow in incredible ways as well. Now of course I can do a reinstall of my OS, but I really don't want to go through all that trouble.

            1. keithpeter Silver badge
              Windows

              Re: I am not sure of the law in various parts of the world where microsoft operate

              @drexciya

              Genuine question: would it be possible to do fresh install; then apply updates to date; then - before restoring user files from backup - do a Clonezilla of the pristine drive; and then restore that image in future when things begin to fill up? Restoring a clonezilla image takes 15mins or so.

              I recollect the 'backup and do fresh install' thing from the days of win98 but assumed that all finished with the NT based OSes.

              1. Roland6 Silver badge

                Re: I am not sure of the law in various parts of the world where microsoft operate

                Genuine question: would it be possible to do fresh install; then apply updates to date; then - before restoring user files from backup - do a Clonezilla of the pristine drive; and then restore that image in future when things begin to fill up? Restoring a clonezilla image takes 15mins or so.

                Yes, although I'd recommend doing a full disk image rather than just a partition image.

                The image can also be restored to other identical systems although you will have to follow the restore with a Windows repair as the HDD id held by windows will differ from the physical HDD id.

                I'd recommend also with this fresh install to not enter the Windows key before you have applied all the updates etc.

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: I am not sure of the law in various parts of the world where microsoft operate

            @ tabman

            This would be a big problem for me as my hard drive is almost completely full of 'stolen' movies which I wouldn't want to lose.

            AC for obvious reasons and to clarify as I can't add an icon, this is a joke. But could be a problem for some other people.

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: I am not sure of the law in various parts of the world where microsoft operate

        MS can do what they like that is covered by the EULA.

        EULA means bugger all in the UK, there are a couple of bits of legislation called the Unfair Contract Terms Act (1977) and Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations (1999). These are soon to replaced by Consumer Rights Act 2015 Unfair Contract Terms.

        Very shitty of Microsoft to force this on people and I hope the get their ass sued into the ground for this unacceptable behaviour.

      4. Enrico Vanni

        Re: I am not sure of the law in various parts of the world where microsoft operate

        Bollocks m8 - no-one can contract out of statutory obligations in the UK.

        1. Danny 14

          Re: I am not sure of the law in various parts of the world where microsoft operate

          Wnsxs is a collection of softlink files. Deleting files from there will screw your system over.

          There are loads of tablets with limited space including MS own surface tablets. Not a great move.

          Not to say 3gb will take a chunk of grinding from people with low bandwidth connections too.

          Dick move by MS.

        2. Mike Pellatt

          Re: I am not sure of the law in various parts of the world where microsoft operate

          Only problem being, these statutory obligations are enshrined in consumer protection law.

          So no redress if it's business use. Like a self-employed trader, f'rinstance.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      "This is an industry practice that reduces time for installation and ensures device readiness."

      I believe that industry is known as Organized Crime.

  2. Graham Marsden
    Facepalm

    " it is possible to remove the Windows 10 update files...

    "...using the Disk Cleanup utility".

    Ironicly, to see the video on how to remove the unwanted files, you have to install the unwanted Silverlight...

    1. This post has been deleted by its author

  3. bobgameon
    Alert

    Something Missing

    I read the article and no where in the article did any Microsoft statement say that its being pushed to users who didn't reserve the update.

    As for windows update that's how its been delivered since day one. That's how everyone around me got it. So what's exactly new?

    1. diodesign (Written by Reg staff) Silver badge

      Re: Something Missing

      Buddy, you're all wrong. We asked Microsoft if people who *hadn't* reserved the update get the Windows 10 files, and Microsoft said even those people will get the installation data.

      C.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Something Missing

        Have Microsoft confirmed its the full installation (Gb of stuff) as opposed to a set of smaller (tens-hundreds of Mb?) installer files?

        I ask because the MS instrument is ambiguous and when administering WSUS, I see updates with descriptions about "improving the update experience" but the files changed and sizes are relatively small.

        1. Paul Shirley

          Re: Something Missing

          @AC yes, it's the full 3Gb and I've had to remove it on both Win8 machines here. Several times on one of them :(

          Even more annoying i had to do it after already downloading the ISO for each pc, Microsoft are being a bunch of c###s about this and need smacking hard.

          1. Oz

            Re: Something Missing

            I'm confused by all this. I "upgraded" to Windows 10 last night and, despite the fact the installer assured me all files were downloaded, it spent another two hours downloading more guff. My PC apparently didn't have the full 3Gb. Sounds like there's an anomaly somewhere....

          2. hplasm
            Pirate

            Re: Something Missing

            A 3Gb unwanted use of your bandwidth? People should consider billing MS for stealing their connectivity. It's like 'piracy' - Win10 is 'like a cancer'... (ooo deja vu!)

          3. Meerkatjie

            Re: Something Missing

            This would explain why I got a warning the other day from my ISP saying I am about to exceed my download limit. I have 4 windows machines in the house and if they all downloaded the same files that's a lot of extra files that I don't really need.

          4. Captain Scarlet

            Re: Something Missing

            I have given up removing it from any machines I come across, if its left then it doesn't download again.

        2. Andy A

          Re: Something Missing

          I found the 4+GB of files on my regular-use laptop about 3 weeks ago. I had not asked for them, and certainly never gave permission.

          That laptop is set to use my WSUS for patching rather than going to Windows Update. Normally I download patches somewhere cheaper and then update from the WSUS VM. No mention of this reached WSUS.

          I now know why my 3G internet connection ran out of allowance unexpectedly - Microsoft helped themselves to 25 quid's worth of my bandwidth.

          1. Andy Non Silver badge
            Thumb Down

            Re: Something Missing

            Andy A said "I now know why my 3G internet connection ran out of allowance unexpectedly - Microsoft helped themselves to 25 quid's worth of my bandwidth."

            Same here except the update took nearer 7 GB for some reason *. Considering I only have 12 GB worth of 3G for an entire month it took a big chunk out of my allowance. I ran out a week or so ago and have been running on what the ISP euphemistically calls "reduced speed" i.e. slower than dial-up. Most websites are now either unusable or keep timing out. I have to keep hitting "retry". Grrrr! I've now abandoned the Windows 10 installation on that dual-boot laptop... it is now being used exclusively for Linux Mint. Unless someone twists my arm up my back until I scream, I'll never boot into Windows 10 again, ever.

            * I did run the Windows 8.1 disk clean-up feature at one point, blissfully unaware that Windows 10 had probably already downloaded a good chunk of itself. A notification that it had started the download would have been nice! I gather from what I've read elsewhere today that running the disk clean-up also wipes current windows updates, thus forcing them to start from scratch again.

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Something Missing

            I now know why my 3G internet connection ran out of allowance unexpectedly - Microsoft helped themselves to 25 quid's worth of my bandwidth.

            There is scope here to draft a default letter for this, attach the bill as evidence and send it to Microsoft UK for repayment (I think it's not wholly unjustified to add £10 worth of handling and system recovery costs to it either). If they don't pay, take it to Small Claims.

            I can only see MS change their behaviour if it has consequences that hit their income. Otherwise they'll do as they have done for decades: ignore what the user wants and any associated laws that go with that. I don't use Windows, but if I did I would have gone after them under the Computer Misuse Act 1990 as well as they have not obtained any permission from me to use my machine as their temp storage system and this is NOT an update. This is a new OS, and it would have used resources that were not theirs to take.

            Instead, I'm just glad I don't use Windows anymore :)

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Something Missing

        Interesting - but 'installation data' is not the same as a fully running OS, so MS will simply argue that the choice remains with the customer; MS is simply caching the 'correct' choice to make customers' lives easier - and I bet that every non techie judge who has to rule on this will buy that excuse.

        How much nagging do you get one else your bandwidth has been wasted downloading the install packages? Not zero I bet.

        1. Paul Shirley

          Re: Something Missing

          @Skydweller is not just bandwidth, the fuckwits dump it on the system drive. So my nightly backup just grew by 3Gb per machine. My sys drive is deliberately small and 3Gb represents a substantial proportion of its free space, all versions of windows behave badly when free space shrinks too far.

          In one case it tried downloading the update with less than 3Gb free, would have crashed windows if i hadn't caught it (then removed another few gb of shit update hadn't bothered cleaning up, 3gb is below what i normally try to keep free).

      3. Roland6 Silver badge

        Re: Something Missing

        So as forecasted MS are following exactly the same pattern as they did with the Win8 to Win8.1 update, even though many at the time said they would be stupid to do this...

        I assume the 3GB download doesn't have a KB (as per the W8->8.1 update) and so can't in fact be blocked unless you've managed to uninstall/not install the growing list of W10 update KB's.

      4. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Something Missing

        Your about 3 weeks late on this, I had a win8 laptop and thought I'd try win10 for fun, no download straight install.

        Needless to say it now has win7/Linux Mint on it...

      5. bobgameon

        Re: Something Missing

        See there is no quote in the article saying that that's why I was confused. But this seems to be a really idiotic move by Microsoft. There are plenty of people who aren't going to upgrade right now like people waiting for OneDrive placeholders, people waiting for drivers to be fixed and so on.

        I for one have upgraded my Surface Pro 3 but no way I'm upgrading my gaming rig right now. For that i'll wait till July 2016 hoping NVidia, Microsoft, Razer and MSI get there shit together by that time. Windows 10 is just too inconsistent for my most used machine. My work laptop is still on 7 thanks to my company.

    2. Kobus Botes
      Linux

      Re: Something Missing

      @bobgameon

      On new Windows 8 machines, the upgrade to Win10 is now set to On out of the box (in fact, when you start the initial setup, the first option is to upgrade to 10).

      If you decline the offer, it will install 10 the first time you reboot, as Windows update has it already ticked (under OPTIONAL updates - natch!!) - you have to explicitly untick the upgrade option and then hide it. I will check my better half's machine tonight, to see what the situation is (Win7).

      Personally I moved to Linux (Mandrake|Mandriva|Mageia) about 12 years ago - still no regrets or anything I really miss (not into gaming much - my game of choice is still HalfLife and I have not completed HL2 yet. Installed Steam on my machine, but the video card is not up to standard).

      Moving to Linux is really not that hard; a bit strange/different initially, but Google is your friend.

      1. NotWorkAdmin

        Re: Moving to Linux is really not that hard

        Correct. That's what I've done at home too.

        Unfortunately, I also have to maintain the IT at my workplace. There is absolutely no way this is an option. Most of my users haven't got their heads around "file > print" yet. I mistakenly used the term "bookmark" last week only to get a chorus of people asking me to quit with the technobabble.

        1. keithpeter Silver badge
          Coat

          Re: Moving to Linux is really not that hard

          @NotWorkAdmin

          "Most of my users haven't got their heads around "file > print" yet. I mistakenly used the term "bookmark" last week only to get a chorus of people asking me to quit with the technobabble."

          If you are in UK, it might be worth contacting local F.E. College or local authority Adult Education service. Depending on numbers and your company approach to training &c might be possible to get a trainer out to do basics on your site. There will certainly be courses available locally.

          Carrot: Trainers are really patient and have the 'get them laughing while they develop skills' type approach. They can pick up wider issues e.g. maths knowledge problems when using Excel that might help people get more useful.

          Stick: As a senior colleague of mine puts it "there is a word for people without reasonable IT skills: unemployable".

          The might is emphasised as I have not been involved with 'employer-responsive provision' (as this would be called) for ages and the system might have been spannered.

      2. Gezza
        Devil

        Re: Something Missing

        "Google is your friend" - I get what you are saying but sort of ironic really given their business model is what MS is switching to. It is the most notorious of the data slurpers and considered the mother of all evils on many a Comments page on this esteemed site.

      3. TheVogon

        Re: Something Missing

        "but Google is your friend."

        Your very nosy friend that accesses all your personal data and sells it to the highest bidder...

        1. Andy A

          Re: Something Missing

          Not just the highest bidder. They sell it again and again.

        2. Col_Panek

          Re: Google is your friend

          Just a figure of speech; he meant to say "Duck Duck Go is your friend".

    3. Cari

      Re: Something Missing

      "what's new?" Microsoft interns are failing to hush-up the problem now that Win 10 has been released to the public, would be my guess.

      Win 10 insiders have been reporting this exact issue at least at the time of release if not earlier, along with frustrations and queries about whether MS will download things regardless, how to ensure it doesn't get downloaded etc. It's okay if you missed that or were unable to find such reports with a search, because their forum is an absolute nightmare to navigate, and a search with Google just brings back articles like this one now.

      I have found a thread with some more recent posts (early August) that claim to have experienced this issue (scroll down to august posts): http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows8_1-update/will-microsoft-seek-permission-before-downloading/137b2c7d-5c08-43ad-ab44-75b0ebae9357

      Canadian Tech's posts in these threads indicate that yes, unwanted download of Win 10 files is a thing that is happening:

      http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_7-update/how-to-stop-windows-10-upgrade-from-downloading/c03b556d-ba87-425a-8359-f93cde7b61c3

      http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_7-update/how-do-i-stop-windows-10-installing-on-my-computer/cdb3d4a0-4399-4a59-962f-37372607679a?page=1

      http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_7-update/update-says-its-downloading-windows-10-setup-files/4734e8b7-43aa-414a-b03b-4c3e00815ad8

      And then there is this thread from a few weeks ago:

      http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-windows_install/win-10-download-issue/167c447e-12a7-4036-9e78-7362c34cb8f3

      I don't have a link since I haven't found the thread again, but one Win 10 insider reported the 3GB update being downloaded on their non-reserved machines, as well as the machine they had explicitly reserved. My dad's been a Win 10 insider since last year and has been following the problems on the official MS forum as well as others, and has told me of several instances of insider reporting the download occurring despite Win 10 not being reserved on the machine. These include "horror stories" of people on limited connections finding suddenly they've gone massively over their cap, have had to fork out money to their service provider due to that, and found this Win 10 download was the culprit.

      Even if it wasn't being downloaded regardless of reservation status, there are more than enough complaints from insiders and regular users about the persistent "upgraded to Win 10" updates, that show that Microsoft is all but taking control and forcing Windows users to upgrade despite what the users want. And even if the update being downloaded because one of the previously persistent updates escaped a user's notice, this is still not on. A download of that size should not be happening without the user's explicit consent, especially if it's one that will want to install and potentially fuck up the user's system.

    4. Dan 55 Silver badge
      Mushroom

      Re: Something Missing

      It's an optional update which is automatically selected for download (mandatory in all but name)... unless you have notify before download chosen as your update method and unselect it before giving the OK.

      As Windows 7 has no idea what a metered connection is then this brings mobile connections to a standstill and woe betide you if you're in the sticks with 2G trying to get your email. Someone with 2-3 computers and an ISP with a bandwidth cap will have to get the wallet out too.

      And a sizable proportion of people with Windows 8.1 will have metered connections wrongly configured so the same will happen with them.

      In fact the safest Windows OS to have is Windows 8 (not 8.1) which avoids all this bollocks.

      1. Chairo

        Re: Something Missing

        In fact the safest Windows OS to have is Windows 8 (not 8.1) which avoids all this bollocks.

        Or Vista... Oh the irony!

  4. David 132 Silver badge
    Unhappy

    "Personal" computer no more

    I've been struggling to articulate just what it is about Windows 10 that bothers me, without seeming like a total luddite. But I think it's this: their default assumption seems to be that it's not my computer, it's their computer, that I'm allowed to use according to their whim.

    Up until about 2-3 years ago, my computers were under my control - a small oasis of control in a world in which I'm largely powerless and my ability to live my life as I see fit is being systematically stripped away. I want to uninstall an app? "No problem." Decline an update? "No problem." Delete the entire C:\windows\system32 folder? "Dumb, but hey, if you're determined - no problem, we won't stop you." Point was, it was my computer, and I could do what I wanted with it. Technology was an enabler and the possibilities were endless.

    But from Windows 8 onwards, it seems that the entire direction of computing is moving back to centralized, paternalistic, "we-know-what's-best-for-you" control. Cloud storage. Cloud logins. UAC. Administrator-doesn't-really-mean-Administrator. Enforced updates. Downloading a whole new OS just-in-case-you-want-it-but-if-not-we'll-continue-to-nag-you. Secure Boot that somehow only seems to benefit Microsoft. Constant logging - sorry, I mean "telemetry". Safe Screen a.k.a. "we'll inspect everything you download to make sure we approve of it". Technology seems to be defined in terms of what it grudgingly allows you to do, with the approval of the Powers That Be. And it's a whole lot worse with Windows 10.

    It's not just Microsoft; Google, Apple, and pretty much all the big players seem to be enthusiastically moving in this direction. An analogy would be: we've moved from the traditional liberal "everything is permitted unless it's expressly forbidden" model of rights, to the totalitarian "everything is forbidden unless it's expressly permitted". And I hate it.

    Pardon my rant. Dismiss it as hyperbole or pretentiousness if you wish. It's just my primal scream of rage and frustration against an IT world that I no longer fit or understand.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: "Personal" computer no more

      100% with you there. If they buy the machine, then they have some say about what occurs on it. As they didn't; they can -collectively and individually- fuck right off.

      I have linux mint in a VM; and I'm gradually transitioning, function by function over to it. Theoretically, WIn7 will go until 2020; but the more they take the piss like this, the more urgent it seems.

      What's a good email client? Something on the level of The Bat? Incidentally, El Reg: "A complete numpty's guide to linux" might make a promising series.

      1. Pookietoo

        Re: What's a good email client?

        I used to use The Bat!, now I like Claws Mail.

        1. mythicalduck

          Re: What's a good email client?

          Can you have multiple accounts in Claws - with their own Inbox?

          Thunderbird decided a "one inbox for all" and that's just stupid. I have different accounts for a reason

      2. a_yank_lurker

        Re: "Personal" computer no more

        A couple of good Linux alternatives Ubuntu (turn off Amazon searching), Linux Mint, Zorin, openSUSE, Mageia are viable alternatives. You can get a live disk of each to try it out and install from. No nagware, updates regularly come but are installed with YOUR permission. No 50 page shyster manual to agree to.

        1. Hugh Barnard

          Re: "Personal" computer no more

          Yes agree. I've used Linux Mint [a Debian/Ubuntu relation] for the past five or six years as a desktop. I'd quite like an alternative for Access, as I have to deal with Access idiocy professionally and I'd like to find a 'cure', but I don't miss anything else. I have a Windows laptop, but it's used about once a month and will soon be sold.

          Happily, I'm old, so I was pretty used to Unix when it was around, that helps, but you don't need it. After being unofficial support line to my ex, I've now converted her desktop and there are much fewer 'help!' calls than previously. She's using day to day without any deep knowledge.

          I'm watching the world move from PCs as a useful tool to 'devices' containing 'apps' that are used to 'monetize' whatever. Open source is the only sane way back to putting us in command of our computing world.

        2. Col_Panek

          Re: "Personal" computer no more

          Add Elementary and Linux Lite to the list of noob friendly distros.

      3. snowweb

        Re: "Personal" computer no more

        I was using the The Bat for years until 2010 when I moved entirely to Ubuntu and couldn't use it anymore.

        The way I overcame this loss of a decent program, was by using Thunderbird, with a bunch of addons to make it more powerful.

        I had tens of thousands of emails in The Bat which I needed to port, so what I did was I set up an IMAP mail server under my control. Made myself an account on it and setup access to it through The Bat. I then dragged (using The Bat UI) all the mail that I wanted to keep, into the IMAP folders (which in my case were actually hosted locally). This got my mail out of The Bat's proprietory storage format and into standard maildir format. I then backed up the IMAP storage location. Reformatted the computer with Ubuntu, setup another local Dovecot IMAP server and restored my backed up IMAP mail to it.

        I could then setup Thunderbird, using the local IMAP server as my local folders and that would be where I would archive my mail forever more. This means that I will never be bound by proprietary formats ever again.

        That was 5 years ago. Today, I love linux. I could never go back. There is nothing about windows I miss, except perhaps, support of some peripherals, but that's improving all the time. I still print, use webcam with Skype (sorry), scan, connect my mobile and open MS formats. I don't have anivirus software and don't need it. My passwords are stored locally in a KDE Wallet and I'm confident that all is secure.

        In short, I can sleep at night. Good luck with your migration. You're in for a treat. :-)

Page:

POST COMMENT House rules

Not a member of The Register? Create a new account here.

  • Enter your comment

  • Add an icon

Anonymous cowards cannot choose their icon

Other stories you might like