back to article Mumsnet founder 'swatted by misogynist griefers'

Mumsnet founder Justine Roberts and another user were both targeted in swatting attacks at the apex of a series of hack attacks that may have led to the compromise of user logins at the high-profile, UK-based parenting site. Swatting involves making an emergency call to the police claiming that a crime is taking place at the …

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  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Set theory

    I wonder how large the intersection of Mumsnet and Ashley Maddison users is? Not empty I bet.

    Now perhaps we'll find out...

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Set theory

      Given that there are only half-a-dozen real women on AM, I'd guess very, very small :-)

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Set theory

        Indeed. AM's catchphrase shouldn't be "Have an affair today" but rather "Pay us your cash and see if you can locate an actual woman on the site and who's willing to entertain you, you sad gullible wanker". I guess they chose the former as it's catchier.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Set theory

        > "Given that there are only half-a-dozen real women on AM, I'd guess very, very small :-)"

        Given that the number of women committing adultery is exactly equal to the number of men, this seems unlikely.

        I'm happy to believe that there are a lot more men who might like to commit adultery than women, but the actual numbers match.

        As to numbers of women who want to? Don't make the mistake of thinking that women don't do that sort of thing. Years ago I used to work as barman and if the graffiti in the bogs is anything to go by then there is no shortage of women to harbour the desire too.

        1. P. Lee

          Re: Set theory

          >Given that the number of women committing adultery is exactly equal to the number of men, this seems unlikely.

          That's not very, er, "Modern" of you.

          There's also the possibility that there are lots of men trying (and mostly failing) to have an affair, with just a few very promiscuous women.

          I have a sneaky suspicion that linking "misogynist" with "griefers" is a mistake. That implies that they have some philosophical basis for their actions - probably not griefers in that case. Either Mumsnet has misunderstood griefers or they rae falling into the trap of saying "if you aren't for us, you're against us" which irritates people.

          Haters gonna hate. I think it was a mistake to turn this into "thing."

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Set theory

            > That's not very, er, "Modern" of you.

            Since adultery is legally defined in many places as full on penis in vagina intercourse between two people where at least 1 of them is married, just not to each other. The "Modern" I assume you are referring to has naught to do with adultery.

            So I'll stick with my argument that the numbers of male and female acts of adultery balances out.

            Someone else suggested that a lot of men were being adulterous with a few promiscuous women. This might well be the case, but there are also a number of promiscuous men who engage in adultery with a large number of women. So even if you want to argue in terms of the numbers of people rather than the number of sexual acts then I'd be highly surprised if there was that much of an imbalance.

            As to soft or hard science, genetic studies have shown up real hard numbers for the number of female adulterers. They even have a term for the effect, they call it the "Milkman effect". Correlating similar numbers for males is much more difficult and so I've never seen any published numbers. Instead all we have to go on usually are the boasts of men of how many people they've sh**ged.

            In terms of citing adultery in divorce petitions the figures in the UK for 2011->2013 show a dead heat at 13% for both sexes.

        2. AbelSoul
          Paris Hilton

          Re: graffiti in the bogs is anything to go by then there is no shortage of women

          Whit?

          You consider bog-wall-graffiti a valid barometer?

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: graffiti in the bogs is anything to go by then there is no shortage of women

            Maybe the poster who does their research via toilet walls did their degree in one of the social 'sciences'? I gather that sort of research methodology is acceptable in the soft sciences.

            1. TheAnt

              Re: soft sciences.

              What your local night club doesn't have a "grab a granny night?"

              Maybe things have changed since I was in my 20s but it was a regular occurrence everywhere I lived, nights when what I think Yanks now call Cougars or Mumsnet calls Yummy Mummies would go looking for their sport. Plenty of chances for hard research.

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  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    @DadSecurity also claimed thathe had access to Mumsnet user data.

    Do Mumsnet people know for sure that the person or persons behind @DadSecurity is/are male? Or is this supposition?

  4. Otto is a bear.

    #Dadsecurity

    Sorry, not sure why attacking Mumsnet would help Dadsecurity. So far as I'm aware there's nothing sinister, evil or even anti-men about Mumsnet.

    I feel #misogynistsnet would be a better tag for this bunch of clowns. One hopes that if Mrs. Dadsecurity (Be it his Mum or Significant Other) has her rolling pin handy.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: #Dadsecurity

      "So far as I'm aware there's nothing sinister, evil or even anti-men about Mumsnet."

      Perhaps you just need to spend a bit more time finding out then - I've seen some horrendous attitudes presented in comments on that site which seem to be accepted by the majority (stuff that would get shot and buried on here pretty quickly).

      Poor attitudes are not limited to a specific gender, but only one gender seems to get it in the neck from what I can see.

      Watch 'Loose Women' some time and you will see the same undercurrents of prejudice.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: #Dadsecurity

        I've upvoted both the OP and the response. I can't see the point in attacking the site even if there is anti-male sexism on there, however, having worked in predominantly female environments in the past I have to say that I've heard ladies happily express offensive attitudes about men that would have got me a trip to HR for a little chat if I'd expressed similar attitudes to women. Obviously it didn't bother me overly but it did strike me as double standards. I've also worked in some terrible male-only environments that wouldn't be pleasant for female workers, a break area with a draw full of porn springs to mind...

        1. Phuq Witt
          Headmaster

          Re: #Dadsecurity

          "...a draw full of porn..."

          Is that some kind of nudey gunfight?

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: #Dadsecurity

            LOL, no, it's a raffle at the local church hall where the vicar has donated his stash

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: #Dadsecurity

          I grew up in a household where aligning with the feminist movement required simply chanting "all men are bastards" three times, once the entry was complete all social problems could be blamed on blatant sexism and associated penis ownership, without any hint of irony.

          Some brave soul might venture that having a working uterus does not instantly make the owner a sage, but not me, and certainly not on mumsnet.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: #Dadsecurity

            Anybody who thinks that feminism is a coherent pro-woman movement need only type "white feminism" into google to have their illusions shattered.

            Rather, it is a disorganised mess of people looking to justify the opinions they already hold, whatever those opinions may actually be.

        3. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: #Dadsecurity

          I've worked in offices where it's acceptable to have calendars of naked male firefighters posing holding their hoses or male rugby players using their odd shaped balls to cover their modesty yet any attempt to pin a calendar of a scantily but clad woman resulted in howls of 'sexism' and complaints to HR.

          I have no issue with the calendars but it does seem a little unfair.

          Worse yet, I've worked in environments that were almost exclusively staffed by women where men dare not tread. One such place saw a man parcel taped to a pillar after the women had stripped. That one resulted in a police visit when his wife reported him missing five hours after his shift ended.

          1. Yugguy

            Re: #Dadsecurity

            Sounds like he needs to man the fuck up.

      2. codejunky Silver badge

        Re: #Dadsecurity

        @AC

        Loose Women? Isnt that Top Gear for the other sex?

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          @Codejunky

          Pretty much, but look at how much criticism is leveled at Top Gear.

          Try doing that with Mumsnet or Loose Women and you will hear the cry of SEXIST.

          I dunno, being a white male seems to mean that we aren't allowed a voice simply because all the other voices are quite obviously victims of white males.

          We aren't all the same!

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: #Dadsecurity

      mumsnet is like a bunch of yokels with torches and pitchforks. They are often meddling in matters that they are completely ignorant about, it isn't surprising that they have provoked a reaction. I don't support harrasment or a campaign against them but lets not pretend that they are innocent victims, harmlessly minding their own business.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: #Dadsecurity

      Say anything women dislike these days and you're acussed of misogyny.

      The word means people who hate women, very few people hate women, they may hate certain women, but not all of them.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: #Dadsecurity

        Misogynist has joined Fascist and Commie as meaning someone I disagree with.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    is that Justine in the photo?

    if so, then she's a very Handsome woman.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: is that Justine in the photo?

      You sure that's a woman... looks a lot like a traveling man with a wig. ( shhh, mum's the word)

      1. AbelSoul
        Trollface

        Re: looks a lot like a traveling man with a wig

        Hello, Dave?

    2. tim 13

      Re: is that Justine in the photo?

      It's Muriel Cleese, with a young John

      1. Khaptain Silver badge
        Coat

        Re: is that Justine in the photo?

        "It's Muriel Cleese, with a young John"

        Isn't there a legal age for that kind of thing ?

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: is that Justine in the photo?

          you're both wrong!

          Its Charles Hawtrey on his day off.

          1. Yugguy

            Re: is that Justine in the photo?

            Well I'd not pick a fight with him/her/it.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: is that Justine in the photo?

              You'd have the twatterati on to you in a flash. And remember her hubby is Ian Katz, once editor at the Guardian who has now somehow found a job at the BBC. Don't know HOW that happened, moving from the Guardian to the Beeb. Still, impartiality, it's in their genes.

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Black Helicopters

    Swatting?

    I think in the UK the response is likely to be a couple of blokes in a Vauxhall Corsa, rather than a horde of heavily armed ninjas and a couple of helicopters.

    1. SolidSquid

      Re: Swatting?

      You're probably right that it's a lot less likely to end up with someone getting killed, but it does also increase the chances that police won't respond as quickly to an actual emergency if it happens on a semi-regular basis

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Swatting?

        Given that some areas of the UK have as few as three officers covering night shift I'd be bloody surprised if they got a response at all.

        About the only thing likely to get killed if you do get a police response is your Nescafe and chocolate digestive stash anyway.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Swatting?

      Kind of loses its effectiveness with a predominantly unarmed police force that isn't quite so jackbooted, military hardware carrying, and prone to pull the trigger "cos, well, I was in fear for my safety".

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Swatting?

      Still a decent chance of a tasing, although I agree that the big complaint should be about diverting police resources.

    4. Fibbles

      Re: Swatting?

      FYI any mention of firearms will get an armed response in the UK. They may not come in guns blazing but they will be firearms officers.

    5. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Swatting?

      I just hope no-one swats a brazilian...

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    From the photo, Justine has a very strong heroic chin.

    I'm sure she'll be able to wipe off whatever troubles and tribulations land upon it and soldier on bravely....GO Justine!

  8. wolfetone Silver badge
    Boffin

    What If

    @DadSecurity was the property of a group of misandrists and they conducted the attack?

    We are through the looking glass here now people, as Malcolm Tucker would say.

    1. Mark 65

      Re: What If

      It's a splinter movement. Cue the "Are you the Judean people's front?"

    2. breakfast Silver badge
      Black Helicopters

      Re: What If

      Good point. Except that there is no evidence that misogynists ( of whom there seems to be a bafflingly huge number relative to a handful of actual misandrists ) need any help at all in making themselves look like repugnant imbeciles. They seem to actively enjoy it, in the same way that American conservatives do. Maybe it's just the new fashion with the young people and whathaveyou. Probably in a few years they'll look back and be as cringingly embarrassed by their antics as we are witnessing them.

      1. Vic

        Re: What If

        misogynists ( of whom there seems to be a bafflingly huge number relative to a handful of actual misandrists )

        [Citation needed]

        Vic.

  9. Captain Scarlet Silver badge
    Paris Hilton

    PostCode?

    Why on earth is a post code even provided as an option, I thought Mumsnet was a community forum?

    1. Captain Underpants

      Re: PostCode?

      At a guess, because someone well-meaning thought it might be useful for finding other members in your area - but didn't then think about how this information could be exploited by someone malicious...

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    On a more serious note

    As a MNetter, there have been some important questions surrounding this incident.

    The perpetrators have been able to gain access to the site and use admin functions.

    A file has been made available which seems to contain usernames, passwords (in plaintext) and IP addresses.

    For the protection of it's uses, MN allows a feature called "namechanging". This means long term posters can disguise their identity when posting details. Bearing in mind a lot of abused and at-risk people regularly use the site for advice. Currently it seems MN are rather coy as to whether anyone could have gained a list of posters with previous namechanges. If such data has been accessed, then quite a few people could be a *serious* risk from violent partners, or their families.

    It's questionable how well MN have handled this. They were a bit slow in warning users.

    Personally I have no confidence in MN security. They were assuring us all passwords were encrypted. Yet here some are - in clear text. Which I know - I'm on the list.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: On a more serious note

      There there, you just forgot to click the button to secure it dear. Here, let me show you how...

    2. Particle in a Box

      Encryption/Hashing (Conflation?)

      "They were assuring us all passwords were encrypted."

      According to the BBC, Ms Roberts said, "Mumsnet itself stored users' passwords in a "high strength" encrypted form, so doubted its own database had been cracked."

      Assuming the quote is correct at a technical level, one question worth asking is, why were the passwords encrypted, as opposed to hashed?

      Anyway, my comment here is really just an aside if XSS was used to pilfer passwords, as has been suggested elsewhere. Either way though, it still raises questions about data security policy on MumsNet*.

      *Of course, it's possible (I would hope, probable) that passwords were in fact hashed and that Ms Roberts is simply confusing the two.

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