back to article Oracle: Docker container tech will be in the Zone on Solaris

Oracle is the latest company to get on the Docker bandwagon, having announced support for the application container technology to come in a future version of Solaris Unix. Docker arose out of the Linux world, and its original implementation takes advantage of a number of Linux kernel features, including LXC, cgroups, and …

  1. JimProfit

    What Oracle is announcing is already available under Illumos (opensolaris forks) for some time, thanks to the guys from Joyent.

    Joyent implemented the docker API in their open-source cloud management platform, presenting the datacenter as an elastic docker host.

    (ie: joyent triton)

    Did Oracle choose the same approach, or did they implement Docker API at the physical server level ? Unclear in the article and the PR.

    1. corbinu

      Agreed .... I am currently running my startup on Triton and the obliviousness of this post by Oracle was shocking.

      I would guess Oracle like Joyent is building using Sun's old linux to zone emulation software. However I would guess they will port the docker engine directly to Solaris rather then write a docker compatible API for Smart Data Center as Joyent has done. Especially since Oracle has no equivalent product to SDC

  2. kryptylomese

    Linux has had containers since 2008 (so 3 years after Solaris) but so what!

    Solaris snobs will continue to look down their noses as they see Linux as poor relative. They need to realise that Linux is being developed at a rate that no other operating system can keep up with - It is not Solaris that runs on the Top 500 supercomputers computers in the world.....

    On the Microsoft angle really, who cares? Businesses are using Linux for mission critical businesses apps because of the cost and minimal down time benefits.

    1. This post has been deleted by its author

    2. corbinu

      Linux is most certainly the development standard, but zones are unquestionably more secure there is a reason why Amazon, Google and Microsofts clouds all wrap their docker solutions in VMs LXC is unacceptable for multitennant hosting.

      This is exactly why Joyent fuzed the two. To allow the security and stability of Solaris/SmartOS as the host but the developer freedom of linux in the container.

      1. kryptylomese

        Solaris Zones are more analogous to a virtual machine but LXC (Docker) is thought of more as a space to run a service that can scale.

    3. JimProfit

      You should take a deeper look at the alternative.

      Of course the amount at development thrown at Linux has no equivalent in opensource OS, but however improbable as it may seem, Linux is lagging behind Illumos/Solaris on a number for components...

      btrfs is about production ready while ZFS is production-ready for almost ten years and improving since. When you see that RedHat EL 7 uses by default XFS, a FS inherited from SGI, instead of EXT4, that should ring a bell..

      I definitely would choose SMF over systemd.

      I used Linux-vserver and examined OpenVZ, Linux just doesn't offer something comparable to Zones, and certainly not to what the combination of Zones/ZFS/Dtrace/Crossbow offers..

      Maybe it is because Illumos/SolariS development is more focused, as these OS tend to be far less ubiquitous from a hardware support, plateform, usage perspective.. Less companies investing development = less conflicting interests/ competition/politics.. On the downside if your requirements doesn't align with the needs of the few companies developping Illumos and you don't want/need to contribute you better look elsewhere..

      I kicked the tires of the opensource Smartdatacenter (=Triton minus billing component), it's very well thought, use of resources is very optimized and it offer a unprecedented level of visibility.. Definitely deserves a look If you can do without live migration and shared storage..

      I just wish I could deploy it (we use Linux and Windows..) .. maybe later...

      Ironically Joyent Triton may be the best plateform to run Linux containers, especially Docker..

      According to Simon Eskildsen who wrote a detailed post "Why Docker is Not Yet Succeeding Widely in Production": "from what I've seen most issuess we faced (except image building) are solved on Triton/SmartOS"

      Ubuntu have enough consideration for these technologies to they partner with Joyent to offer certified and supported Ubuntu images on Illumos containers.

  3. iOS6 user

    > They need to realise that Linux is being developed at a rate that no other operating system can keep up with

    It is always funny to observe such comments written usually by people who knows only that something like Solaris exist.

    May you try to show any Linux distribution which had more to offer in last major new release than for example just announced Solaris 11.3 beta?

    One example will enough ..

    1. kryptylomese

      The technical problems that Solaris solves, are also solved by Linux but with a different approach and it scales - please take a look at the links below:-

      http://www.top500.org/statistics/details/osfam/1

      https://www.linux.com/news/enterprise/high-performance/147-high-performance/666669-94-percent-of-the-worlds-top-500-supercomputers-run-linux-

      I couldn't find any Solaris in the list and "One example will enough .." (sic)

      With regards to ZFS, when you work at scale then the local file system is less of an issue, I am referring to constructs like glusterfs etc.

      When performance and scale matter, then Linux appears to the operating system of choice, wouldn't you agree? Perhaps the Solaris 11.3 beta will make a dent in the TOP500 list?

      1. iOS6 user

        > When performance and scale matter, then Linux appears to the operating system of choice, wouldn't you agree? Perhaps the Solaris 11.3 beta will make a dent in the TOP500 list?

        It is few reasons why Linux is used on HPC systems in order of importance:

        - Linux is only system supported on delivery by hardware vendor MPI related software

        - it is known for people who support it in exact env (usually those people are enough skilled to not relay on external OS support)

        - on the market is much more people able to customize it on using APUs/GPUs (Most of biggest HPC installations are working on customized hardware)

        As you see performance on above list does not appear.

        1. kryptylomese

          Hmmm "HPC systems" is in your list - P for performance no?

      2. JimProfit

        You seem to be fixating on the TOP500 list..

        Of course the TOP500 shows that Linux is by far the most popular platform for HPC, which in turn suggests this is the most suited OS.

        Here we are speaking of multi-tenancy container support, a different topic, with its own problems... In this regard the TOP500 isn't that relevant.

        Whenever you use a FS, a FS is an issue. If you use GlusterFS, you use a FS as a backing file store, XFS is a common choice, you can use ZFS too..

        ZFS is not only scalable, it prevents your data from silent corruption, it supports compression, ZiL and read cache on SSD, write throttling (great for multi-tenancy), snapshot, CoW clones, remote snapshot synchronisation (rsync send / rsync receive..)

        Anyway ZFS is available on Linux too, which is great... It seems to be gaining popularity on this OS..

        If you know of something similar to SmartDataCenter / Triton based on Linux please share it with us I would be definitively interested..

        1. kryptylomese

          It is difficult to have a coherent discussion in a forum due to answering questions at different times. Thank you for the details of ZFS but honestly, the benefits really are not that awesome or supported Linux distros would have adopted them (ZFS) earlier.

          Containers on Linux are not quite the same as Solaris zones and they do not need to be. The benefit of a container is that it houses a "simple" service e.g. Apache, and it does nothing else. This model means that you can bring on other instances easily to embrace scale. This is the more modern way of thinking.

          Having said the above, there are times where Zones may be useful but there are plenty of other solutions out there.

          I made the point about the Top500 because I can see that Linux is the future as well as being the most utliesed operating system in the world and I wanted to show that it is not just great on phones (Android) or embedded systems etc but it is also the best on the biggest hardware in the world.

          I hope that Solaris remains a marketable proposition but I do not think it will survive.

  4. JimProfit

    - Thank you for the details of ZFS but honestly, the benefits really are not that awesome or supported Linux distros would have adopted them (ZFS) earlier.

    Circular reasonning..

    Thank you for you explanation about containers, sorry but your vision of containers is very narrow..

    Zones like OpenVZ/Linux-Vserver = operating-system-level virtualization, which can host one service as well as a full OS instances, and has some advantages over hardware virtualization. And in the foreseeable future we'll still have to run full OS instances..

    http://dtrace.org/blogs/brendan/2013/01/11/virtualization-performance-zones-kvm-xen/

    Yes the micro-services pattern is gaining traction these days, SmartDatacenter was built on it..

    IMHO one of the problem of solutions like SDC is that it requires some real expertise and investment to fully understand and appreciate it. It's not the most marketable product..

    Not that I would expect it from someone with reasonings like "it's not on linux so it can't be awesome" to give it enough consideration. (BTW weren't you referring to snobism in your first post ?)

    I don't care that much for Solaris or Oracle.. Illumos or Linux are more the OS I'm interested in, and other opensource OS..

    1. kryptylomese

      I do rate Solaris and you are completely missing the point if you think that I am saying that only Linux is awesome. I am saying that Linux is the biggest thing now and it is the future. It is unfortunate that some will not, or worse cannot accept this!

      I am happy as long as the Unix philosophy is continued as well as FOSS.

    2. kryptylomese

      "Zones like OpenVZ/Linux-Vserver = operating-system-level virtualization, which can host one service as well as a full OS instances, and has some advantages over hardware virtualization. And in the foreseeable future we'll still have to run full OS instances."

      Full OS instances that utilize the kernel you mean, and therefore it is not possible to run Windows on it (not that I would want to) but the way you are egging it up, you make it sound like it is as versatile as VMware and it most definitely is not.

      Linux is more than capable of full OS visualization too. Please clarify the advantages you are talking about over hardware virtualisation?

  5. JimProfit

    Linux is by far the most versatile and popular and dynamic OS right now..

    Linux has indeed a very bright future for years to come..

    AFAIK nobody is denying that.

    It doesn't make other OS irrelevant, even Windows.

    And for specific aspects some other OS are better suited than Linux.

    I guess that once it is adressed by the Linux kernel developpers it won't last for long, but it didn't happen yet..

    1. kryptylomese

      Thank you JimProfit, you have answered my question. It is sad (In a kind of nostalgic way) that the days of Solaris are numbered, but other Unix derivatives have died along the way too e.g. SCO Unix.

      With regards to "making" Windows irrelevant, I think it actually has done that (please take a look at the number of companies and Governments that have switched to using Linux as well as the fact that Android is the most common operating system on mobile phones, and most embedded systems as well as network gear.

      "And for specific aspects some other OS are better suited than Linux." - Linux is not static (more organic like in its development) so your statement is redundant.

      We should all rejoice though as long as Linux ends up being something that is superior or at least as good as what has come before it, and due to the scale of development (which was the point I made right at the beginning of this forum) then you get bet your house on it that it will!

      Good bye Solaris (and not good riddance!)

  6. theWatcher

    but which Solaris ? (SPARC or Sx86 ?)

    One or the other or both ?

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