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WikiLeaks, er, leaks the Bundestag Inquiry into NSA naughtiness

Anonymous Coward

figures...

My German is insufficient to read the undersea cable doc...Google translate, here I come.

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Re: figures...

My attempt got as far as..

"Once the vulnerability in Google translate was detected, the ability to remotely execute code from steganographic text hidden in the source documents.."

.. but then my browser crashed and reloaded. But flicking through it I saw a few mentions of DE-CIX, but no diagrams. So possibly a simple interception.

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Hmm...

I find it difficult to believe that Merkel and other senior figures in the German cabinet weren't aware of the...ongoing collaborative work, shall we say...between the BND and NSA when they decided to very publicly denounce snooping purported to have targeted the German government.

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Re: Hmm...

Simple answer, which you can understand here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plausible_deniability

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Re: Hmm...

There's also the: "go ahead do what you want/need. but if caught, I'll deny any knowledge and hang you out to dry"... aka.. the Mission Impossible scenario which seems to be well used by politicians everywhere.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Hmm...

Won't somebody think of the collaborators...

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LDS
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Re: Hmm...

Of course they knew about the collaboration, but I'm not sure they were aware that 'collaboration' in NSA lingo means 'spy your allies industries and other key people'

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Re: Hmm...

I think you may be attributing too much to the governments. I'd be more inclined to believe that a lot of this 'cooperation' was done between agents rather than agencies as a whole. I figure that the standard situation would be:

1) Something comes up that threatens national security (read: a politicians bank account)

2) politician goes to NSA to get more info on what is going on

3) NSA bosses pass the request down to an agent

4) Agent gathers what information they can, but comes up short on some details

5) Agent then trades with an agent at another agency for that information using something they want such as a new piece of spyware, a cache of nude pictures taken from a previous surveillance dragnet, or just information the other guy wants

6) Agent then compiles report as requested and passes it to his bosses

7) bosses pass it along to whatever politician requested the info

8) Politician then gives favors to the NSA

9) Everyone involved becomes too busy spending the new budget to ask where the data came from

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Re: Hmm...

The only thing any head of state knows about what that countries Intelligence agency is up is what the chosen figure head tells them.

If labour had won the election Milliband would not have been told about everything GCHQ are up to. He would have been told only what he needed to know for any given situation in front of him.

No way in hell would they have mentioned that he and his chosen friends were being watched...but only to stop international terrorism clearly.

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Re: Hmm...

President Truman had a sign on his desk which said "the buck stops here", and with good reason.

There is no excuse for a Western country's leader not to know what his or her government is doing in important areas, or to claim not to know. They have a personal staff whom they can personally choose, and is as many people as they like. A thousand people if they want.

As for being deliberately deceived, they have immensely powerful tools at their fingertips, right up to nuclear options like the ability to replace the head of any government organisation, launch an inquiry into it, abolish it or even, in Europe, pass legislation creating new criminal offences.

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Encrypted?

I can't make heads nor tails of the document in that link. Has anybody cracked it?

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Re: Encrypted?

It's mostly encrypted by being in 6pt text...

Having screwed up my eyes and tried to read some of the testimony from "Witness W.K." it doesn't sound like there's anything very detailed in it. He didn't want to comment on exactly where the interception points were or the details of the technical interception. He explained that only data matching predefined selectors was captured and was confident that the BND were sticking to their remit of foreign intelligence and not involved in domestic spying. All kind of what we've heard before.

But that's up to about Page 16. Don't think my eyes will last out for the remaining 75 pages - but that's another great way to hide information you don't want seen...

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Anonymous Coward

"Siemens doing business with Russian Intelligence"

Seems to me that doing any business with Russian Intelligence is against the most recent trade embargo's anyway. How long has that been going on? The Iran embargo has been quite lengthy.

Is that why Iran got advanced centrifuge technology (With Siemens controls and drives) they should not have been able to get?

If Siemens made an end run around the Iran embargo using the Russians, then there are adverse legal implications for every one of it business units, especially in the US.

All the more reason to spy on both the Russians and Germans. If neither are above board, why not?

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Flame

Re: "Siemens doing business with Russian Intelligence"

any business with Russian Intelligence is against the most recent trade embargo

This kind of statement reaches new levels of retardation.

Anyway, dear American: Why don't you take your trade embargo and stick it where the sun don't shine. Please take the wife of Kagan with you. If you absolutely must defend Ukraine against the naughtiness of federalism and keep it safe for nazi-aligned oligarchs by way of forceful NATO integration, why don't you reimburse the EU for damages and consequences?

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LDS
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Re: "Siemens doing business with Russian Intelligence"

Do you believe Putin the Short is trying to save poor Russians in Ukraine and not trying to put his dirty hands on the naval yards and bases Russia lost when Ukraine became independent? Almost all of the Russian fleet was built in Nikolaev, the Russian operations in Ukraine are pure military moves to regain and re-establish a significative military presence in the Black Sea and the Mediterranean, without being forced to the far more limited Baltic bases.

Of course NATO has all the reason of being worried about such moves, especially made by a man like Putin who has clearly lost his head and is in the phase of believing to be a great dictator with no boundaries.

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Happy

Popcorn time

Seriously, though ... if the BND passed privileged information from Siemens and EADS to the NSA, heads must roll, because, shit, they are putting German jobs at stake.

Who will trust the BND if heads do not roll ...

/!\: I wrote the same about GCHQ, so the Brits on here can STFU!

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Anonymous Coward

Popcorn

We are very much waiting for Merkel and her cronies to go "pop" but she is still trying to sit it out, hoping to be saved by whatever bell that might come along.

A very intersting aspect is the part of the media. The "affair" – as it is still called, despite being a fully blown national crisis – is being kept very much alive in publications that have strong ties to the Atlantik-Brücke. Which could make one think a great many things. Personally, I prefer the view that the good people working there are true German patriots that will not accept what is being done to their country.

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I can understabd that "spies spy"

But I get pretty tired of the NSA's holier-than-thou act about how they don't conduct industrial espionage, when all this leaked and declassified material pretty much indicates that they do.

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Anonymous Coward

"Eikonal"

Like one part Eichmann, one part seconal.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: "Eikonal"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eikonal_equation

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Anonymous Coward

Who do they work for

The public need to decide what they want, and who the spying agencies work for. Governments are at OUR service, not theirs.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Who do they work for

Fool!

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Anonymous Coward

Well that's TORn it.

After the NSA went to all that effort planting so many of its special's nodes in Eikonalia. Wonder where they'll pop up next. Ukraine?

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EADS & Airbus

Targets included members of the French government and European industry, including the European Aeronautic Defence and Space Company (EADS) and Eurocopter. Airbus, another target of alleged spying, has launched a lawsuit.

Airbus was part of EADS, which is now known as the Airbus Group.

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