back to article Intellectual property laws in China, India are flawed, claims US govt without irony

The US government is looking to shame China and India for their lax attitudes toward intellectual property law enforcement. The office of US Trade Representative Ambassador Michael Froman said in its annual Special 301 report [PDF] that the two Asian nations were among the worst at snuffing out counterfeit goods. The two …

  1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
    Holmes

    Ah yes.

    Remember in 2003, right after Iraq had been bombed to hell and DU-ed somewhat fiercly? One of the first planes to arrive carried that lady from the Intellectual Property enforcement squad? (See here and also here). Those were the times. I wonder if ISIS would allow camcording of Amurrican movies or allow Monsanto to determine which kind of grain may not be used? I guess snuff movies are copyrighted?

  2. This post has been deleted by its author

    1. 080

      In India, meanwhile, trafficking in counterfeit goods is estimated to cost companies (foreign and domestic) as much as $11.9bn annually.

      Does anyone in the real world actually believe that if they did not pirate the content they would pay full price for it? Same old bullshit from the big American media companies.

  3. Andrew Norton

    Special 301 is a special kind of joke

    the special 301 report is one that has one point and one point only. It's to push other countries for stronger laws. It's not about good laws, or valid laws, and it's certainly not about national soverignty, or about other countries misusing such laws to the detriment of American citizens and/or companies.

    It's an MPAA/RIAA/BSA talking point report only. Nothing more. The only comments the USTR will listen to or pay any attention to when compiling it, are those that ask for stronger laws in other countries, and you don't even need any sort of supporting evidence for that claim.

    As an objective or substantive report, it's utterly useless. It is quite literally an executive branch office shilling for industry lobby groups, and nothing more.

  4. Slap

    If you're going to outsource there

    If you're going to outsource your manufacturing to these places WTF do you expect. You've handed over the Crown Jewels. Given the wage levels in these countries no normal drone is going to be able to afford the real thing, hence copies which satisfy the the local market, and perhaps beyond, are par for the course.

    Personally I can't blame them.

    1. ecofeco Silver badge

      Re: If you're going to outsource there

      Exactly, but no one has ever accused US corps of NOT wanting their cake and eating, too.

      Personally, I feel they are getting what they deserve. They (the corps) are certainly not shy about ripping off anyone too small to fight them in court and will do so in a New York second.

      1. james 68

        Re: If you're going to outsource there

        "...Exactly, but no one has ever accused US corps of NOT wanting their cake and eating, too."

        True but the real problem arises from them forcibly eating everyone else's cake, and the canapés, and the little sausages on sticks, basically every damned thing.

  5. Mage Silver badge
    Trollface

    USA says ...

    Reform your own thieving Patent Office, your Spies feeding USA Corps etc.

    Pot Kettle

    Glasshouses stones

    Etc.

  6. The_Idiot

    Berne there...

    ... didn't do that.

    "In particular, the US urges India to: enact anti-camcording legislation; model its statutory license provisions relating to copyrighted works on the standards of the Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Works"

    Sigh.

    With extra sigh.

    From US Copyright (Title 17), §104:

    "(c) Effect of Berne Convention.

    —No right or interest in a work eligible for protection under this title may be claimed by virtue of, or in reliance upon, the provisions of the Berne Convention, or the adherence of the United States the reto. Any rights in a work eligible for protection under this title that derive from this title, other Federal or State statutes, or the common law, shall not be expanded or reduced by virtue of, or in reliance upon, the provisions of the Berne Convention, or the adherence of the United States thereto."

    In essence, the US made their membership non-self enabling, that is, they recognise internaitonal copyright, you can take someone to court for breach in the US - but even if you win you can't claim statutory damages or attorney fees unless your work was registered under specifically US copyright prior to the claimed breach.

    So much for their Berne-ing desire for _everyone_else_ to follow the Convention...

    1. This post has been deleted by its author

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Berne there...

      That is USA attitude to international law in general - they perceive it as a one way cattle prod to push around other nations. It does not apply to them though as far as US is concerned. This in fact, is enshrined in the so called 14th amendment to the USA constitution and the current precedents on how to interpret this amendment.

    3. Mark 85

      Re: Berne there...

      This sounds much like the Chinese law on copyright also. Hmmm....

  7. Mark 85

    From what I've seen coming out of China, they are equal opportunity rip-off artists. Not just the States but I've seen copies of things (not just IT) from all over. It's not just a US problem but a world wide one.

    1. Tom 38

      qv USA 19th Century?

      They don't like it up em.

  8. ratfox

    Wall of text alert

    I have a confession to make: I'm cynical about laws. I don't believe that laws are written to enforce what is right and just, or balance of crime and punishment, but merely to ensure a functioning society with a minimal amount of trouble.

    One of the reasons for my position is that what is considered right and just varies considerably with time and place. Slavery, homosexuality are viewed in a very different light now from two centuries ago. Copyright law is no different.

    Copyright law and the content industry are in my view evolving to protect artists in ways appropriate to the current technology. It used to be that possession of an official recording gave you the right to listen to the music it contained. Giving, selling or inheriting the physical object transferred that right. Copying was hard and caused loss of quality, so little needed to be done to stop people from doing it.

    Nowadays, since copying without loss of quality has become trivial and widespread, the industry is moving to licensing. You buy the right to listen to the music, with eventual time restrictions. The right cannot be resold or given away. This is becoming both possible and necessary because of the Internet.

    The key point is that when an old law is becoming increasingly difficult or impossible to enforce, the solution is not to introduce increasingly complex systems to enforce it. The law does not necessarily represent a moral absolute which must be enforced no matter the cost; it is often merely the most efficient means to an end. If it is not efficient any more, it is more reasonable to change the law in a way that attempts to achieve the same goals, than to turn society upside down to try to keep the statu quo.

    Attempting to shame China and India about copyright law does not seem very efficient to me.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Wall of text alert

      My analogy is the Ptolomeic epicycles versus the Copernican model. The first system worked moderately well but required more and more tweaks to provide accuracy. Eventually it was far too complex and someone from "outside" produced something simpler but providing more accurate perdictions. [Of course, Mercury was screwy in both systems. It took Einstein to provide an explanation in the General Theory of Relativity.]

      The fundamental idea with IP is to provide revenue to the artist/engineer/... so that they may continue their work. Toss in all the support people, far too many that have been superceded by technology who are resistant to being denied, in their view, rightful employment. Hopefully the train wreck that occurs when the system is being disintermediated (what a word! :-) won't get too ugly The Copernican and Gutenburg revolutions should be guides. Aside: When Gutenburg replaced the scribes they were mostly picked up by the Church and the State (nobility) to become bureaucrats. Think carefully about unintended consequences before you find new employment (if any) for displaced workers.

    2. Alan Brown Silver badge

      Re: Wall of text alert

      "It used to be that possession of an official recording gave you the right to listen to the music it contained. Giving, selling or inheriting the physical object transferred that right."

      Do you realise that publishers (books and records) tried to have that made illegal in the past?

      Their failure to suceed in those attempts is where the "first sale doctrine" comes from.

      This is something they've been attempting (and largely suceeding) to destroy ever since (hence software being licensed, etc)

  9. razorfishsl

    The real issue is the Dumbass Yanks allow all the students from foreign countries to study at US universities and have work placement in IT companies.

    Then they cry about their IP being ripped off.....

    1. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

      don't forget all those

      lovely H1B Visa's and all the IP that those with one get access to.

      The US, famous for closing the stable door after the horse has disappeared over the Horizon.

      US == UnServiceable

      USA== UnServiceable Again

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Sorry, just me being stupid here

      How exactly does this relate to IPR theft?

      USA university policy towards foreign engineering students is quite carefully orchestrated to select the best and get them to work locally. They do not even attempt to hide it. Similarly, the H1B programme is largely a method to perform selection of the ones that are suitable to be EB2-EB3-ed via I-140. So none of these are stealing as none of them are leaving in the first place.

      As someone who has been on the opposite side of the line here, you do not survive long if you are academically excellent and openly state that you have absolutely no intention to stay. Similarly, you do not survive long if you are on H1B and treat it as H1B - a short term supplemental labour contract where you will leave in a year or two (if not a few months) taking the knowledge you have gained with you.

      Interesting things start happening. Your scholarship is not paid. You are moved into a converted basement storage room to in the dorm live in (speaking from personal experience here by the way). And so on.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      I also wonder how many US patents are the result of work done by ferriners who aren't hired long term to work here, or anywhere in the First World for that matter. More having the cake and eating it too. I know that would torque me right off.

  10. Will Godfrey Silver badge
    Unhappy

    Translation

    We want it ALL!

    1. ecofeco Silver badge

      Re: Translation

      Nailed it in one. Upvoted.

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    $300 billion....

    Right... I am certain that people in provincial China would be happy to pay $1,000 for a software license if only it was made available to them instead of all these 'dodgy' copies.

    When the exchange rate is equal across the world then the prices can be equal. Until then, these figures might aswell come from a random number generator.

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Fix your own patent laws first...

    ...before you try imposing your views on the rest of the world.

    The fact I can put some vague assertion on paper which I haven't even made yet, or is so blindingly obvious, and this 'patent' entitles me to get paid when someone actually uses it, is bloody ridiculous.

    A patent on rounded corners - you've clearly already jumped the shark.

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I would comment but .......

    someone in the US has patented the 'method for opening ones mouth'

  14. rtb61

    So What?

    This seems to be a big ole so what. You have your laws and they have their laws, you have your government and they have their government, you have your IP in your country, they have their IP in their country (which includes all the planets accessible IP). How they choose to treat it, is their choice, don't like it, well, so bloody what?

    What the bloody heel business is it of the US government, what the IP laws are in China and how they are monitored. If they want, ten year or even one year patents and copyright, their choice. AMERICA NOT YOUR CHOICE, PISS OFF.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: So What?

      US Law, as I understand it, says US Law applies to all countries. That works when they have more money, more lawyers, more aircraft carriers and the other countries don't have nukes.

  15. This post has been deleted by its author

  16. MrZoolook
    Childcatcher

    So, when (I mean, if) these countries adopt the US style of patent trolling (I mean, registering), will the US be able to sue them for infringing their patentt?

    "A method of registering patents"

  17. Alan Brown Silver badge

    fundamental problems

    1: Copyrights and patents have been extended to stupidly long periods that are badly damaging to the hosting society.

    2: There are cartels controlling distribution of media around the world.

    The patent system was originally a way of distributing royal favours and ended up being abolished by the king because of widespread egrarious abuse, then recreated in a much more equitable form.

    It looks like abolition and recreation is long-overdue.

    the second part also needs nuking from orbit. Australia correctly declared DVD regioncoding as an illegal restraint on trade more than 20 years ago and subsequently backed down on it. TTP and TTIP will actually make things worse, not better.

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