back to article Revealed: The AMAZING technology behind Apple's $1299 Retina MacBooks – a lot of glue

Apple really doesn't want its customers to be able to repair or upgrade their own computers. The Cupertino giant has done just about everything in its power to render the new Retina MacBooks impossible to open and fix. This is according to DIY site iFixIt, which has published an extensive teardown report on the latest OS X …

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  1. PleebSmash
    Thumb Up

    "Sir Jony's juice"

    paycheck earned

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: "Sir Jony's juice"

      Yeah and let's get an impartial view and ask a company selling repair kits for their opinion!

      Ultimately if it makes the machine lighter / thinner / more reliable that's ok with me - sure I accept some people want to be able to repair their own machine once it's out of warranty but most others are happy to let the manufacturer or a specialist company do it.

      Bit like the guy I was talking to who cracked the screen on his iPhone - bought a 3rd party piece of glass (for not much less than Apple would have charged to fix it anyway) then spent a lot of time fixing it and now complains the screen is not as good as the original.

      Basically the Macbook has very few parts now - a circuit board, trackpad, screen and battery. You are likely to have to get any parts from Apple anyway and even if you could get 3rd party parts I would not trust a 3rd party battery for instance.

      The flip is this approach will probably make the device more reliable and yes you cannot upgrade the capacity of the storage but it's not like an old hard drive that will fail and is slow.

      End of the day it's a trade off - like removing CD/DVD drives - it may not suit some people but probably benefits the vast majority.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: "Sir Jony's juice"

        I disagree with your last missive. Non-replaceable batteries condemns this equipment to be trash after a few years. That's for sure unethical and borderline immoral IMHO.

        1. Simon Harris

          Re: "Sir Jony's juice"

          as does a non-replaceable flash drive if you write to it enough.

        2. Mike Bell

          Re: "Sir Jony's juice"

          Non-replaceable batteries condemns this equipment to be trash after a few years.

          No, it doesn't.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: "Sir Jony's juice"

            If the thing is held together with glue, how would apple service replace the batteries? Magic unglue? I think not. You would be getting more of the system replaced than just the cells - and be getting charged for the privilege.

            1. Yugguy

              Re: "Sir Jony's juice"

              Bit like my TomTom Go6000 satnav - a none serviceable device it would seem, after I sent mine in for a replacement cracked screen and received a brand new unit in return.

            2. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: "Sir Jony's juice"

              "If the thing is held together with glue, how would apple service replace the batteries?"

              Surely not your problem if Apple do indeed change batteries on these models.

              I think the tech-savvy readers in this forum are making the classic mistake of attribute malice to that which can equally be explained by poor judgement.

              I watched an interview with Steve Jobs the other day, in which he explained the inception of the early Mac models - in taking the machine through the design process from concept to manufacture, they had a target sale price and battled to get the costs down and ultimately failed - ending up going to market with a $2,500 price point - which at the time was very very expensive.

              Also don't forget that Apple devices are designed ultimately as an appliance. They're not aimed at the market which wants to upgrade their machine - rather the tech illiterate consumer who will treat it as a black box.

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: "Sir Jony's juice"

                Oh dear anonymous coward...welcome to the 21st century!

                The number of tech illiterate consumers is plunging rapidly these days..most teens or 20-somethings won't think twice about changing components in a device.

                Although I grant that using glue is probably keeping both weight and construction price down marginally, it really is all about keeping customers locked in to Apple products.

                And last time I had to get a screen replaced on an iPhone, Apple quoted over 3 times the price of a mobile repair shop that gave me a decent guaranteed fix.

          2. Chavdar Ivanov

            Re: "Sir Jony's juice"

            The new 12" MacBook is not on this list, though.

            1. Mike Bell

              Re: "Sir Jony's juice"

              Which bit of "Apple offers a battery replacement service for all MacBook, MacBook Air, and MacBook Pro notebooks with built-in batteries" do you not understand?

              1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

                Re: "Sir Jony's juice"

                The way that they can decide tomorrow that the replacement service costs exactly 2x the purchase price of the model they just released.

            2. Colin Wilson 2

              Re: "Sir Jony's juice"

              > The new 12" MacBook is not on the list.

              Yes it is - £159 (!)

              https://support.apple.com/kb/index?page=servicefaq&geo=United_Kingdom&product=Macnotebooks

          3. N2

            Re: "Sir Jony's juice"

            Yes, it does

            I thinks its called 'restrictive practise' & only good for Apples bulging coffers & not at all good for the environment.

          4. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: "Sir Jony's juice"

            You don't have the foggiest notion about what you are talking about!!!

          5. nick soph

            Re: "Sir Jony's juice"

            $86 for the replacement of an iphone battery.

            I think Apple must have a special course for their employees - How to keep a straight face when a potential customer approaches you.

        3. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: "Sir Jony's juice"

          If the battery did not last a 'few' (2-3) years I'm pretty sure Apple would be replacing it. I can only speak from my own experience but at home we have two 6+ year old MacBooks both still on original batteries and with good runtime.

          What people forget is Apple will replace batteries in these devices - I don't have the costs to hand but a colleague took a 5+ year old Macbook in to them (failed HDD) and they replaced (and re-installed OS X and showed how to restore from Time Machine) it for not much more than the cost of the drive itself.

          Many of the people on here seem to whinge about Apple but have not actually used them. Now I could tell you the horror story of a Samsung phone going wrong and them taking many phone calls to finally concede it had to go back - but would then take at least 21 days!! Compare / contrast to my iPhone having a fault (caused by me dropping it) and going to an Apple Store and having it fixed within 20 minutes. Or a colleague who broke their phone while abroad and again Apple sorting it out there and then!

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Stop

            Re: "Sir Jony's juice"

            " 5+ year old Macbook in to them (failed HDD) and they replaced (and re-installed OS X and showed how to restore from Time Machine)"

            They removed a removable part. That is not what is being discussed here.

          2. AJ MacLeod

            Re: "Sir Jony's juice"

            @AC... most of us are not forgetting anything. Your 5+ year old Macbook is nothing remotely like these current models and as completely irrelevant as your toaster.

            Apple will not be replacing "hard drives" (SSDs now) in any of these new models. When the SSD dies they will simply bill you for a new motherboard too and turf the toxic old one into landfill or pass it on to someone in the depths of poverty in a country somewhere far from the shiny West which has no health and safety regulations so they can strip it for valuable materials using dangerous chemicals.

            Likewise the battery - when it fails, they will just bill you for replacing everything it's glued to, they're not going to try and prise it out.

            Just to match your anecdotal proof of Apple providing fantastic value support, I recently had a customer come to me desperate to have data recovered from a five year old Macbook Pro which wouldn't boot; Apple's "genius" had tested the machine carefully and told her it was impossible to attempt to recover any data until the machine had been repaired by them. The detailed quote (sorry, Genius Bar Work Authorisation) from Apple was still in the laptop; they needed to replace the logic board, display assembly, hard drive, top case with keyboard (i.e. the part which is the entire body of the machine). Total cost... £1,149.60 (of which, only £24+VAT was labour!)

            I got the machine working perfectly again for about £1,100 less - I did splash out a little and replaced the dying HDD with a cheap but decent SSD. Oh, and recovered all the data from the old HDD first (like any half-competent amateur could have done, it just had a few bad sectors.)

        4. Dan 55 Silver badge

          Re: "Sir Jony's juice"

          I have no objection at all to Apple or any other manufacturer making non-user serviceable devices... as long as they attract a punitive tax rate that doubles the sale price, which would be something useful that the EU could actually implement if they pulled their finger out. However knowing the average iFan that will backfire and the higher price will mean that the iDevice becomes even more desirable.

          It's not borderline immoral, it is immoral... The amount of electrical waste we create is high enough already without manufacturers adding to it by shortening their lifespan and making them unserviceable even by themselves.

          1. Mark 65

            Re: "Sir Jony's juice"

            It's not borderline immoral, it is immoral... The amount of electrical waste we create is high enough already without manufacturers adding to it by shortening their lifespan and making them unserviceable even by themselves.

            I thought there was some EU mandate somewhere that stated the minimum level of recycle-ability of products? Or is that the problem, it is highly recycle-able - you just need to do it for any single component failure?

            1. Nick Pettefar

              Re: "Sir Jony's juice"

              Are we hoping that the EU can fix a US problem? Like the EU taking Google to court instead of the US. Are the Americans indifferent to these issues or already bought over or what?

      2. Eddy Ito

        Re: "Sir Jony's juice"

        @AC LMFTFY

        "... sure I accept some people want to be able to repair their own machine once it's out of warranty but most others are resigned to the fact that the manufacturer or a specialist company has do it."

        1. Simon Harris

          Re: "Sir Jony's juice"

          Although if it's all glued and soldered together...

          @Eddy Ito LMFTFY

          "... sure I accept some people want to be able to repair their own machine once it's out of warranty but most others are resigned to the fact that the manufacturer or a specialist company has to throw away the unit and sell you a replacement"

  2. Mark 85

    Well duh!

    the hard-to-access models discourage users from upgrading their systems and help contribute to waste by forcing old or damaged kit to be thrown out.

    Planned obsolescence at it's best then? Which equals more sales and more profit. It also flies in the face of the concept of "green" in that when something breaks, dustbin instead of repair it.

    1. Deltics

      Re: Well duh!

      To balance this assessment it is also important to consider the expected/typical life of the device and the need for repairs over that life.

      Sure, a PC can be upgraded, but to what extent does this extend the useful life of it ? I haven't owned a PC or a laptop that continued to be useful for more than 3-4 years and which only made it to that age thanks to being able to upgrade/repair it to keep it going.

      On the other hand my iMac is now 4 years old, hasn't been upgraded in any respect other than RAM (at time of purchase) and yet as of now I see no reason to need to upgrade or replace it for another 4 years. Sure, this is a meaningless sample size of 1, but this seems also to be the experience of friends and colleagues with other/similar Mac hardware. The useful life of these devices seems to far exceed that of cheaper PC's, despite their relative lack of upgradeability.

      They also seem to be far more reliable.

      Which would you rather have: A device which was easily upgraded/repaired because it needs to be, or one that could not be easily upgraded/repaired but doesn't need to be ?

      1. Robert Helpmann??
        Childcatcher

        Re: Well duh!

        Which would you rather have: A device which was easily upgraded/repaired because it needs to be, or one that could not be easily upgraded/repaired but doesn't need to be ?

        That's a false dichotomy. I would prefer a device that I can do with as I wish within the constraints of what I can afford. By what I assume is your definition, iThings don't need to be repaired or upgraded simply because they cannot and you feel they work well enough and are indestructible enough that you don't have to worry about it. Fine. Product choice is good, but there are plenty of people who want to tinker and plenty who want to be able to make a simple repair rather than having to replace the entire device.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Well duh!

          So don't buy one. At work, I come up with my requirements then pick a shortlist of vendors that could do it, investigate further then pick one.

          I just don't care about the opinions of people who start with "I'd like some Apple gear" then bitch about it not meeting their requirements.

          1. Alan Brown Silver badge

            Re: Well duh!

            > I just don't care about the opinions of people who start with "I'd like some Apple gear" then bitch about it not meeting their requirements.

            I wish I had your luxury.

            _Some_ people talk to the IT folk about specifying their kit.

            Others spend 2-3k on equipment and then "discover" it won't run XYZ package. (Not just Apples. There's at least one scientific imaging package for windows which will _only_ run on laptops with nvidia GPUs)

        2. Annihilator

          Re: Well duh!

          " I would prefer a device that I can do with as I wish within the constraints of what I can afford."

          This sums up my entire thoughts on the Apple vs non-Apple. Don't &^%*ing buy one! Surely end of the thought process of someone who doesn't care (including me).

      2. Greg J Preece

        Objection!

        If you've never heard anyone complain about the reliability of their Mac, allow me.

        I have a company-provided Macbook Pro, 2011 model, so about the same age as yours. The slot-load optical drive died within 18 months, and the RAM died shortly afterwards.

        Having replaced those, I then had to later replace the power adaptor, where the cable wore out and was designed in such a way that it could not easily be replaced. $110 of your finest Candian dollars for a new one.

        After that, the hard drive recently conked out, so that was replaced with an SSD. To add insult to injury, OSX Yosemite disables TRIM on any hard drive you didn't buy from Apple. (Dear Apple: fuck you.)

        And now the return key has broken in half, a fortunately cheap if irritating repair job. One of the USB slots is also on the way out.

        The only reason my laptop is still alive is because I can easily open it up and repair the components that break. Were that not the case, I would have been several laptops in by now. The fabled "Mac reliability" is a myth.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Objection!

          TRIM can be enabled on OSX Yosemite:

          https://www.cindori.org/status-of-trim-enabler-in-yosemite/

          https://www.cindori.org/trim-enabler-and-yosemite/

          It's does require the above 3rd party plugin though. (So yeah "Fuck you Apple" is appropriate)

        2. SolidSquid

          Re: Objection!

          I'd probably say that Apples, on the whole, are better than the average Windows laptop in terms of reliability. Whether they're better than *equivalent priced* Windows laptops is another matter though, and I suspect you're right that it's not any better, it's just that cheaper laptops have given people the impression of non-Mac machines as being unreliable (although that said, I've got a 6 year old netbook and maybe 10 year old laptop boxed away which are perfectly useable for everyday stuff and haven't broken down yet)

        3. jason 7

          Re: Objection!

          Indeed, Apple gear reliability is no better or worse than any other firms.

          A friend of mine used to run a Apple repair company and he had people queued round the block with failed Apple kit. No shortage of fails there. However, he had to give up about 18 months ago.

          Why? Well due to the main gist of this article. It was either impossible for him to fix or taking five times longer than me (on standard PC kit) to replace something simple like a hard drive.

          Even though I state on my website I don't deal with Apple gear (not worth it and Apple customers actually often expect you to fix their gear for free for some reason) I still get plenty calls asking me to fix Macbooks etc.

          Apple gear isn't magic.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Objection!

            Let's analyse that. He ran an Apple repair company and had people coming to him with Apple kit. Well blow me down that does surprise me! Let me guess he saw 100% failure rate with Apple kit and 0% with Windows kit.

            Of course Apple kit fails and when you sell millions and millions of these things then of course some will need repair. Don't forget people are people and people drop stuff and spill liquids on stuff.

            What you need to look at would be failure rates over a much larger sample and time to get anything meaningful.

            1. Indolent Wretch

              Re: Objection!

              What you need to look at is the point of what the guy said.

              Man had Apple Repair shop.

              Man was successful.

              Man has now had to give it up because the damn things are practically unrepairable.

              I think the poster was trying to point out that this isn't a good thing, not trying to get a meaningful graph of laptop failure rates.

              1. jason 7

                Re: Objection!

                Also what folks tend to forget is that inside that £1200 Macbook....

                Is exactly the same RAM/CPU/HDD/GPU etc. etc. as in the £500 Toshiba.

                All made by Foxconn (not the last word in quality) or other OEMs.

                Apple kit doesn't have magic hardware in it. Never has. They just have nice cases and better than usual screens.

                I see 6+ year old Macs I see plenty 6+ year old Windows laptops.

                Due to market share/numbers sold I bet there are more working 8 year old Windows laptops out there than 8 year old Macbooks.

                Perspective.

              2. This post has been deleted by its author

            2. The Mole

              Re: Objection!

              I think you missed the point of the post. Apple kit (like any other) does have failures - even (as you say) if just from people being people and dropping stuff or spilling liquids on it. Making the devices next to impossible and uneconomical to repair is irresponsible and bad for the environment as for even minor breakages it is more economic to replace the whole unit regardless of the environmental cost.

              There is a balance to be had but I for one don't believe that Apple's margins are so tight that they can't afford to effectively screw/clip the battery in place rather than use glue making it near impossible to replace safely,

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: Objection!

                Personally I'd be far happier having the manufacturer replace a failed lithium battery than someone fit a 3rd party battery and risk an unlicensed nuclear accelerator on my lap!

                Not sure of the cost on a laptop but fairly Apple only charge about $70-80 for a new battery in an iPhone - fitted with warranty. I'm sure you can get it done cheaper but is it worth the saving for a non-manufacturer cell / warranty?

                I know some people will say the batteries should be re-moveable but it's a fact that if you want a super slim device with as much battery in the smallest space it's not really possible.

                1. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  Re: Objection!

                  I once bought a MacBook Pro second hand from a friend who gave it to me at about half the price it would have cost on eBay because he loves Apple so much and wanted to convince me that I would, too. But I just like my Debian package mgmt too much and couldn't get used to pressing Cmd-C/V/X at home and Ctrl-C/V/X at work etc. So I'm back to my cheaply sourced second-hand Thinkpads.

                  That MacBook Pro was a fine piece of hardware though and my wife loved it. However, when the charger died while we were travelling and we had to cough up EUR 89 for a replacement I was personally done with Apple.

                  That said when it comes to batteries I've heard more than once of friends who were out of warranty with their MacBooks/iPhones and Apple replaced their failing batteries at no charge.

                  Another friend recently had Apple replace his dying battery on a 17" MacBook Pro after 4.5 years for £130 and he considered that reasonable. Who am I to argue?

                  I think it's just that you've got to make your choice. Enjoy the benefits of Apple hardware/software (I really like the 16:10 aspect ratio over the 16:9 standard e.g.) and be prepared to pay up for it - repeatedly - or pick whatever else suits you best. The environmental damage can be kept in check if you're prepared to pay Apple prices and in some cases, they'll even give it to you for free.

                2. jason 7

                  Re: Objection!

                  But would you want Apple to replace the battery in one of these glued shut Macbooks?

                  Looks like quintuple heart bypass surgery to me.

                  Do they/can they replace the battery?

                3. DiViDeD

                  Re: if you want a super slim device

                  I never asked for a super slim device. When looking to buy a computing device I have never in my life rejected a phone/laptop/PC/whatever on the grounds that it does everything I want it to, but it's just too damn thick.

                  But now we have phones so 'super slim' they bend in your pocket, laptops so thin they have no room for a chassis and have to glue the components directly to the case AND provide zero travel keyboards that give little to no haptic feedback because hey, slim.

                  Just remember when your laptop drifts off in the breeze, or your U shaped mobile phone is now too fat to fit in your pocket that it wasn't me wot asked for it

                4. Alan Brown Silver badge

                  Re: Objection!

                  "Not sure of the cost on a laptop but fairly Apple only charge about $70-80 for a new battery in an iPhone - fitted with warranty. "

                  Considering you can buy an Iphone4 battery for about $12 (new, with 3 year warranty) and it takes about 5 minutes to change that "only" starts sounding like gouging.

              2. ravenviz Silver badge
                Mushroom

                Apple's margins

                No their margins are not tight, by using glue their margins are maximized!

          2. Naselus

            Re: Objection!

            "Indeed, Apple gear reliability is no better or worse than any other firms."

            This.

            The entire argument that 'Apple gear is more reliable' is utter rubbish, simply because the internal components are basically the same. It's just an Intel chipset, same as 90% of other laptops. Apple is really just providing a stylish case and a low overhead dumb-as-a-brick OS.

            Trying to claim that sticking Yosemite on it suddenly extends the lifespan of the parts by 5 years is just absurd.

          3. Alan Brown Silver badge

            Re: Objection!

            "Indeed, Apple gear reliability is no better or worse than any other firms."

            I'll disagree.

            Apple equipment failures at $orkplace run at approximately twice the rate of "PeeCee" equipment.

            The all-in-one desktop kit runs at about 5 times that rate and usually expirees just outside the 3 year extended warranty.

            Current policy is to keep systems running for 5 years if possible and replace at 7 if it hasn't failed before then, so this _does_ increase our IT spend.

        4. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Objection!

          Anecdotal or do you have some better evidence?

        5. Eponymous Cowherd
          Thumb Up

          Re: Objection!

          In the last year we have had four things die on us. Three were Apple (two MBPs and a Mini). The other was an 8 year old Dell Latitude (dead screen) which was repaired on site the following day.

          One MBP we fixed ourselves (dead HDD, obviously not possible with the one in the article), the other two, despite being under warranty, required a 30 mile round trip (each) to the nearest Apple store.

          Considering most of our kit is Dell (80%) and most of our failures are Apple I'd agree that Apple's vaunted reliability isn't all its cracked up to be.

      3. Mark 85

        Re: Well duh!

        I see your point, but battery life and replacement is an issue, for one. In my experience, companies are running to the extreme due to costs. Not just hardware but the labor involved. Instead of a 3 or 4 year replacement cycle, they're stretching it out. Individuals I know are keeping their equipment also. For example, I knew several dozen who are still running XP boxes (I know, not Apple) that have been upgraded and repaired. But they may be in the minority.

        To address your last paragraph.... are you suggesting that this machine will never need repair or even a battery in it's lifetime?

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