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Hoping for spy reforms? Jeb Bush, dangerously close to being the next US prez, backs the NSA

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Facepalm

Just one of many reasons...

why I think this guy should NOT be elected... I see the need for NSA and also the need for reform.

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Re: Just one of many reasons...

Not going to be president. Ever.

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Unhappy

Re: Just one of many reasons...

Depends.

If one of his brothers is the Governor of a key marginal state and the votes kind of slid toward his side.

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Anonymous Coward

don't worry about it

all of the most prominent Democrats are also in support of the NSA the way it is.

So no matter who you decide to dump on, the other side is already on the books as actively opposing reform

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Mushroom

Y'all jus' don't understand our inherent goodness ... !

"Please keep in mind, all yew out there, that we Americans are the True Defenders of Liberty and All that is Right! We single-handedly took on the Evil Empire of Godless Communism and defeated it! We met the Communist hordes all around the world whilst yew lily-livers sat on yore hands and pissed and moaned that the onliest way to be safe was to cower under yore beds ... while we sacrificed the blood of thousands of our truest American Sons and Daughters to keep the planet safe for Democracy!

"Now we see the emergence of the Adherents of the False God, them Terrorists who respect no decent Christian or Democratic principle or our God-Given Way of Life ... and y'all would DENY us True Defenders the Technology to shine the Light of Retribution upon those Radical Muslim cockroaches? Those Terrorists who seek to impose Sharia Law upon the World? Them who seek to Burn and Behead every Christian Believer who will not Submit to their Murderous Ideology?

"If yew have done nothing wrong; if yew stand on the side of Right and Majesty, in this struggle against the Godless Hordes, yew have nothing to fear, for we stand Fearless and Determined in the Cause of Justice!"

There ... that ought to get them voters thinkin' proper thoughts about who deserves a rightful place in the White House!

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Re: Y'all jus' don't understand our inherent goodness ... !

Now whilst this smacks of sarcasm.....

Need an.... I am truly fucking scared icon.

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Meh

Re: Y'all jus' don't understand our inherent goodness ... !

I'd be more concerned about all the Jews fucking off to Israel than I would about this cretin getting into The Whitehouse.

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Re: I'd be more concerned about ... [than] this cretin getting into The Whitehouse.

I believe that was the prevailing opinion back in 2000 when sensible people knew a boob like GWB couldn't get elected.

Then we got 8 years of total mismanagement in which America was successfully attacked by a known threat from a known source, the replacement of the "nothing to fear but fear itself" principle with the color-coded "The sky is falling! The sky is falling" Chickenshit Little Doctrine, and, as the icing on the cake, the ship of state was crashed so hard onto the reef of Economic Malfeasance that it very nearly sank completely with all hands proving to the world how unworkable American Capitalist Economic Theory was.

And in all that time I never once believed the country was under the control of the person elected to the president's office, but was being controlled by the venal, vicious and paranoid old man he brought with him to sit in the other chair.

Most of the machinery that put George the Second on the throne is still in place.

I'd be afraid. I am afraid.

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Re: I'd be more concerned about ... [than] this cretin getting into The Whitehouse.

And the operators of that machinery sit in Langley, Fort Meade, and strewed around the DC Beltway.

Oh, I left off the Saudis.

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Re: I'd be more concerned about ... [than] this cretin getting into The Whitehouse.

Yeah, and there's reason to be cautious, but we only need one thing to keep Jeb from getting elected:

A well-timed statement of any kind from dear old W.

His own party hates him for a reason, and he definitely soiled his family's name while in office, particularly during the 2nd term (much as Obama isn't doing anyone favors right now). If Jeb wants to separate himself from his family, he's going to have to prove he's different. Every time I read an article about him right now, though, it only seems to prove that he's the same as W... and Jeb doesn't have Rove working for him.

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Re: A well-timed statement of any kind from dear old W.

But you don't understand: The Republican Base loves GWB and believes he did a *good* job.

Or at least, that's what Hannity O'Reilly and Limbaugh will have The Republican Base believing come election day.

If Jeb Bush stands, he will win the nomination and stand a very good chance of taking the White House *despite* his family's record on just about anything you care to notice. I'm terrified because I don't think we can stand another financial disaster and there's been a major banking failure C/W taxpayer bailout under every Bush's presidency to date.

And deficits always run away faster than TMI-2 under a post-1980 Republican. As I just said to a colleague: if Republicans are the party of big business how come they can't run the country at a profit like Clinton did? Is it that every Republican in politics is a failed businessman?

Every single Republican president that I've lived under in the USA has presided over an economy that is wheezing like a tubercular street person.

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Flame

Re: A well-timed statement of any kind from dear old W.

Presumably it is precisely because they operate under the impression that the country is a business that they fail to run it well.

When you think about it, a successful business maximizes profit whilst minimizing cost. Ok, working out how to do that with any real business is usually pretty hard, but the principle is simple enough. People will pay you for whatever it is your business does, and your job is to do that as cheaply as possible to make the difference between what you're paid and what it costs as big as possible (and in your favour, obviously.)

So, to improve profits, you either raise prices - which in business would scare off customers, so that's a bad thing - or cut operating costs.

And here comes the problem. A government has costs which remain broadly static. There's a lot of expensive shit that _has_ to be paid for, and that's an end of it. The military, the police, national infrastructure, healthcare (what of it the US has)... all these things need paying for, and whilst for sure there's a shit ton of waste in the way the US goes about that, there's not so much that operating costs can really be made much smaller. Not without utterly ruining the product that is - which of course is what we generally think is happening when we look at the state that the US is in these days and what people are getting out of their government in terms of service to the public.

So, if you can't cut costs, you have to raise the price - and Republicans are ideologically opposed to doing that because they're still thinking like the government is a business, and raising the price scares off customers.

This is of course, nonsense. The "Price", when one is buying government, is "Taxation". Republicans like cutting taxes not increasing them but with a government, unlike a business, raising taxes doesn't scare off the customer because the customer has NO CHOICE but to pay them!

Every time the Republicans refuse to close a tax loop hole they're effectively letting those people making use of it get their product for free, which if you're in an actual business would be considered insane. Every time they lower the tax rate, they're reducing the price of their product - makes perfect sense if you expect price reduction to increase sales, but YOU CAN'T INCREASE SALES OF GOVERNMENT. It's a monopoly. It has a fixed subscriber base. Short of bulk immigration - something they are ALSO OPPOSED TO - there's no way to increase your total sales when your product is "government".

If you want the profit margin up, you put the price up, not down.

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Of course if it were not for the botched intervention in Iraq a lot of the terrorist problems would not exist.

Sure Sadam Hussain was a ruthless bastard, and a lot of his people suffered under his regime, but I'm not convinced that Iraq "post-democracy" is a better place to live with the lack of security, rise of religious power, and enormous society & infrastructure damage.

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"Sure Sadam Hussain was a ruthless bastard, and a lot of his people suffered under his regime, but I'm not convinced that Iraq "post-democracy" is a better place to live with the lack of security, rise of religious power, and enormous society & infrastructure damage."

Sadly it seems that there have basically only been 2 lasting periods of stability in that region for the last hundred years.

1: Under Sadam Hussain, because he had anyone who didn't do as they were told shot.

2: Under British colonial mandate, because we had anyone who didn't do as they were told shot.

Neither says particularly good things about either the people in charge or the realities of living there.

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Meet the brother ...

same as the other brother.

Surprised?

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Re: Meet the brother ...

We are deeply grateful that Mother Bush chose to have two sons ... only the two.

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Anonymous Coward

Some choice

Another Bush or another Clinton...

US Royal Families anyone?

I wonder if Ronald McDonald is available to run.

At least he's up-front and actually dresses like a clown.

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If the Cheney gov't had left Iraq alone, his own Baathists would in time have deposed Sadaam. ISIS leads directly back to the chaos left by morons ignorant of the outside world meddling in the Mideast, using the enormous power of the US military. And here comes another one.

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Yeah, when he mentioned the invasion of Iraq and ISIS in the same sentence I did wonder if he realised that the two things were connected? (Answer: probably not)

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Just like the Jews...

If you listen and believe everything a flaming bush tells you, you too will spend forty years in the wilderness....

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Re: Just like the Jews...

If you listen and believe everything a flaming bush tells you

I haven't said a word for eighteen years till he came along!

Actually, still not bothered.

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What's the problem?

If supporting the NSA helps prevent those pesky, uncomfortable questions about his family's close ties with the Saudi royal family from being asked, what's the problem?

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Joke

Re: What's the problem?

"If supporting the NSA helps prevent those pesky, uncomfortable questions about his family's close ties with the Saudi royal family from being asked, what's the problem?"

That's before they invited the House of Saud's good friends the Bin Laden's around for a "Get to know you" barbeque

Mind you their eldest (Osama I think) weren't much of a drinker, but he was partial to a nice piece of cooked beef.

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Half baked Hilary?

"There is no doubt that we might have gone too far ... "

No doubt .... might have ....?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Half baked Hilary?

There is no doubt that Hillary is a neoconservative and will probably continue to support the NSA's possible covert war against the entirety or parts of the Internet.

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Thank you Mr. Bush

For making your position clear so that we know NOT to vote for your sorry, idiotic ass.

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Sometimes I wonder if Bush Sr. Just takes his heads in his hands and shakes it in despair.

And for the record, the US government is not the family business to be passed on from father to son.

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Family business

And for the record, the US government is not the family business to be passed on from father to son.

Quite. Perhaps the 2 term limit should be per family (say within same 2 or 3 generations), as Bush Sr is clearly gunning for terms 5 & 6, instead of per ind-duh-vidual.

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Anonymous Coward

yet the real power, no one seems to care

when Kennedys can keep their family in various levels of Congress for decades where there are no term limits.

Family dynasties are okay when it's the scions of good ol' Joe Kennedy apparently

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I doubt it. There's quite a few people who believe the 2nd War in Iraq was junior trying to make up to the old man since the Saud's wouldn't let him invade Baghdad the first time.

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Re: Family business

Go back to the early days... seems like that tradition started back then.

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Re: Family business

Or from husband to wife.

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Paris Hilton

Ron Paul is rather oldish now.

Anything but "I came, I saw, he died" Hillary, basically the liberal-socialist side of old bomber Cain. But Jeb is not an answer.

If only we could have some Hope and Change...

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Ron Paul is rather oldish now.

It's like you forgot his son is consistently in the top 3-5 of the repub field.

Too bad he played the autism card to appeal to anti-vaxers during the week of anti-vax gaffes and goofs.

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Anonymous Coward

"I love America and so did my father and brother"

Not the first time an abuser has mistaken what they do for love.

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Boffin

What's more scary

Is that in a connected age, where most people in the western world have access to education and now the internet there still is a high chance another Bush will be elected, doubtless with red-faced angry men threatening violence against anyone who questions that, or anything.

Have mercy on them for they know not what they do.

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LDS
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If Americans have to choose between a son/brother and a wife of an ex-president...

... they're doomed. This kind of democracy looks too much alike an inheritable one. And they wanted to export it too.... maybe it's time they re-learn what a real democracy is.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: If Americans have to choose between a son/brother and a wife of an ex-president...

We Ameritards can settle for a bit of monarchy now that we've gotten rid of the Mormon, eh LDS?

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LDS
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Re: If Americans have to choose between a son/brother and a wife of an ex-president...

If you can't see what is creepy in a handful of families taking control of political life and turning it into some sort of inheritable oligarchy, well I wonder what "democracy" really means for you, and what you really learnt from those who founded your nation - which were people with far more capabilities and decency.

Do you believe Washington, Lincoln and others would have liked to see Bushes and Clintons so glued to power they want to create "dinasties", and cannot step aside?

What's your model now, Argentina? Russia? I always had great respect for how United States created modern democracy - but it looks two century and a half of taking it for granted resulted in complacency - and in increasing inability to maintain it, and stepping back to a pale imitation of it.

I don't live in a country with a monarchy, but in one that very well knows the damages oligarchies lead to. Maintaining power and transmitting it to heirs becomes more important than everything else.

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which were people with far more capabilities and decency?

No idea.

Were they white by any chance?

(That should narrow it down.)

Confession:

Only watched 4 minutes and most of that was intro. The rest was not lies neither was it damned lies nor statistics, it was Bushwah.

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On the bright side at least two good ol' boys haven't managed to totally wreck America, unfortunately if the third one gets in that might be the straw that brakes the camel's back.

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WTF?

Is it true he's meant to be the *smart* one?

Bend over America.

If you tolerate this then your children will be next.

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Unhappy

"in order to effectively tackle Islamic terrorism"

I'd think anyone who's seen "Bitter Lake" will be thinking.

1) Get Saudia Arabia to stop funding the indoctrination of Wahhabism in foreign schools.

2) Get Saudia Arabia to stop exporting these nut jobs abroad and handle their own s**t.

3) Call up the CO of 617 Sqdr and tell him there's a bunch of dams that need demolishing.

If most of the 9/11/01 bombers were from Saudi Arabia, where should the states of the world be focusing their attention?

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Anonymous Coward

WHAT A BUNCH OF ASS CLOWNS

For those who don't know you are surveilled daily no matter where you go outside your residence. Your communication is only of interest if you are a criminal and or terrorist. Some folks are so naïve that they would prefer to be dead or have their bank account emptied than to have authorities properly monitor electronic communications. Too bad because authorities are going to do what is best for the populace even if some folks are too stupid to understand.

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Facepalm

Re: WHAT A BUNCH OF ASS CLOWNS

Says the assclown in person.

There's not been a single case where the spying has actually prevented a terrorist attack.

The gathered info is nothing but a huge temptation to be exploited by some one with access to it - be it a snooping worker who wants to know what his ex is upto, or a scheming politician who uses it to blackmail his opponents.

The practical problem with that amount of info is that the human brain can't process enough of it to recognize the threats, and that a computer (which can manage the data volumes) can't spot the threats.

The moral problem is (as has been pointed out numerous times) the misuse of the collected data.

Assclowns, indeed.

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Re: WHAT A BUNCH OF ASS CLOWNS

WTF??? You actually believe what you just wrote? CCTV has never been used to stop a crime, only to capture what happened for later examination. These things are not monitored "live".

As for "dead" or "bank account emptied".... I've not heard of anyone saying any agency prevented this from happening. I would think that if any agency had, they would publicize just show that they are actually doing something.

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Anonymous Coward

Meanwhile, elsewhere on today's Reg :---

"The British government has admitted that its practice of spying on confidential communications between lawyers and their clients was a breach of the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR). Details of the controversial snooping emerged in November: lawyers suing Blighty over its rendition of two Libyan families to be tortured by the late and unlamented Gaddafi regime claimed Her Majesty's lawyers seemed to have access to the defense team's emails."

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/02/19/uk_spies_on_lawyers/

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Headmaster

we do protect our civil liberties

"we" being operative, meaning the elite class. The other 99% of us, not so much.

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Thumb Down

Goofs

'Germans most important power in Europe'.

"I am just a gladiator these days".

"Ukraine is an important country in a lot of ways".

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Bush will NOOOTT BE the nominee !

Front runner my arse! This is nothing more than the main stream media trying to pick our candidate once again. Jeb is way too liberal (aka rino) to make the cut. This election is going to be another Reagan revolution. If the last two congressional elections don't speak to this,then just look at the vast majority of states legislature's and Govenerorships controlled by conservatives. With that said,Jeb is a far site better thhan the last two. McCain and Romney were just sad choices that the establishment pushed forward with the MSM 's help. Not this time folks !

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