back to article Ugly, incomplete, buggy: Windows 10 faces a sprint to the finish

Microsoft does not have long to fix Windows 10. The company plans to release it this year, and if that implies hardware on the shelves, the operating system will need to be completed in the summer – and most features will need to be near-finalised well before that. Can Microsoft gets its new Windows ready in time? Build 9926, …

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  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    'Full screen start menu' /out

    1. Martin-73 Silver badge

      Agreed, they've apparently NOT learned

      1. Howverydare

        Got to love someone that doesn't read.

        1. JDX Gold badge

          Personally I love being able to multitask when the modal start-menu is on-screen in W7. Hang on, I can't. Maybe the other 95% of the screen could serve some purpose when looking for apps...

          1. Pascal Monett Silver badge

            Re: looking for apps

            I am willing to accept that people look for files, but looking for apps ?

            Is this a case of not knowing what you have installed on your PC, or has Microsoft screwed the GUI up so badly that finding an application shortcut is now a case of Search or Die ?

            Really, everything I read about Windows 10 makes me not want to lose Windows 7.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: looking for apps

              >>Is this a case of not knowing what you have installed on your PC, or has Microsoft screwed the GUI up so badly that finding an application shortcut is now a case of Search or Die ?

              If you aren't using search to start apps on your computer and your phone, you're doing it wrong.

              You might know what's installed on your computer/phone and you might even know where you have to swipe/tap/click to get to it, but what's to say that all that swiping/tapping/clicking is any faster or easier than just typing the first couple letters of the software you want to launch?

              This is poorly implemented in Windows and Windows Phone though so I can understand why you might not like it, if you haven't been exposed to it being implemented correctly, as it is with OS X and iOS.

              1. Greg J Preece

                Re: looking for apps

                you might not like it, if you haven't been exposed to it being implemented correctly, as it is with OS X and iOS

                I think my eyebrows just left holes in the ceiling, unless that was an astonishingly poor typo of "KDE".

                1. The FunkeyGibbon

                  Re: looking for apps

                  Always somebody from the Linux crowed around to suggest that they did something first\quickest\best.

                  Of course even if it's true they totally miss that because nobody in the Linux sphere can agree on anything (Apple = Desktop, MS = 1 Desktop, Linux = 8+ desktops) and so they remain at the fringes of the mainstream. My 6 year old son has used iOS. Will I ask him to try KDE\Gnome\Unity\Xfce\MATE\Cinnamon\Xmonad? No. Is he missing out on 'superior performance and features'? Maybe but then again maybe it doesn't matter if those features are hooked into such a niche OS.

                  1. Greg J Preece

                    Re: looking for apps

                    Le gasp, Linux has options? That's new.

                    I was simply pointing out that "we did it properly" is a bit bold, considering that the implementation is late to the game and inferior to other offerings. Your retort seems to be "nobody uses Linux", which is kinda irrelevant.

                    Alright then, we'll do it your way. OSX is used by half as many people as Windows 8, which "everybody hates", so I feel sufficiently justified in calling it a niche system and dismissing the original assertion outright.

                  2. Frumious Bandersnatch
                    Headmaster

                    Re: looking for apps

                    they did something first\quickest\best.<br>...<br>try KDE\Gnome\Unity\Xfce\MATE\Cinnamon\Xmonad

                    Eh, your Dos/Windows fetish is showing. (slash =/= backslash)

              2. MrNed
                WTF?

                Re: looking for apps

                Disagree - I use OSX, iOS, Win7, Android, OpenSUSE, Mint... Never use search on any of them. Like the OP, I know where things are. I've never got this fascination with searching for things that are exactly where I left them.

                1. Greg J Preece

                  Re: looking for apps

                  Disagree - I use OSX, iOS, Win7, Android, OpenSUSE, Mint... Never use search on any of them. Like the OP, I know where things are. I've never got this fascination with searching for things that are exactly where I left them.

                  I use quick search on all of them, for simple speed reasons. Win key, type two or three letters, hit return. I don't even have to break flow and reach for the mouse.

                  1. Jyve

                    Re: looking for apps

                    Find the app, right click, properties, you can fire up stuff even faster.

                    But... that's for techies who read sites like this.

                    Support on Win8 with the Metro UI has been a nightmare, only fixed when using classicshell to 'make it how it used to be!'.

                    I'd have thought non techies wouldn't mind the pretty icons and all, but turns out they've been using computers just as long as us, and /really/ like not having to do anything different, even if it does mean throwing every single document they can find onto the desktop. "it's the only place I can find it easily!" /groan.

                  2. Joseph Eoff
                    FAIL

                    Re: looking for apps

                    Win key, type two or three letters, hit return, get wrong app.

                    Seriously. I have notepad++ as well as the standard windows Notepad, and a couple of other programs with "notepad" in the name. If I want Notepad, it does NOT show up if I do "Win key, type Note" - every damn thing ELSE gets shown, but not Notepad. I have to type notepad out in full before the search finds it. So, FAIL for the Windows search function.

                    1. Anonymous Coward
                      Anonymous Coward

                      Re: looking for apps

                      >>Win key, type two or three letters, hit return, get wrong app.

                      >>Seriously. I have notepad++ as well as the standard windows Notepad, and a couple of other programs with "notepad" in the name.

                      OS X handles this by displaying the most recently (or most frequently?) used app first.

                      Doesn't surprise me that Windows does it in a way that's inconvenient and bad.

                      1. Avalanche

                        Re: looking for apps

                        > OS X handles this by displaying the most recently (or most frequently?) used app first.

                        > Doesn't surprise me that Windows does it in a way that's inconvenient and bad.

                        And so does Windows 8... Why do people make negative assumptions about software they don't use?

                    2. JW 1

                      Re: looking for apps

                      Yeah, I'm late to the reply here but that comment is just wrong. I also have multiple notepads. I hit Win key and type "no" and all notepads are there with notepad ++ first since I use it most often.

                      Also, a quick look to make sure you've got the right think before you reflexively hit enter.is silly in almost anything computer related.

                      Maybe you don't have 8.1?

                2. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  Re: looking for apps

                  >>Disagree - I use OSX, iOS, Win7, Android, OpenSUSE, Mint... Never use search on any of them. Like the OP, I know where things are.

                  So you think my way is worse even though you've never tried it. That's a brave stance to take.

                  >>I've never got this fascination with searching for things that are exactly where I left them.

                  Where you left them is irrelevant. You must think the search features tell you where you put the apps so you can then launch them the same way you usually do. Absolutely incorrect. The search features launch the apps directly, so to launch any app on your machine, all you have to do is type a couple letters and hit enter. So you can probably launch any given app on your machine in about a second.

                  Are you confident that you can launch any app on your machine in about a second any other way?

                  1. Richard 12 Silver badge

                    Re: looking for apps

                    Textual searching is fundamentally broken because it requires the user to know the name and spelling of the application.

                    Both of which may be unexpected and may change between versions.

                    Furthermore, if you have two items with similar names you cannot tell the difference in a flat list of search results.

                    This is why the Win7 Start Menu had that highlight of newly-installed programs, and why a hierarchical menu is necessary.

                    1. Anonymous Coward
                      Anonymous Coward

                      Re: looking for apps

                      >>Textual searching is fundamentally broken because it requires the user to know the name and spelling of the application.

                      >>Both of which may be unexpected and may change between versions.

                      >>Furthermore, if you have two items with similar names you cannot tell the difference in a flat list of search results.

                      I guess you're right, the first couple letters of Chrome ("ch") or iTunes ("it") or Photoshop ("ph") are basically impossible to remember, and Google/Apple/Adobe change the names of these apps all the time. </sarcasm>

                      Apparently it was a miracle that I was ever able to launch an app using this fundamentally broken process.

                      1. Joseph Eoff

                        Re: looking for apps

                        Yes, actually it is - IF you have programs with similar names, or which contain similar strings.

                    2. Pookietoo

                      Re: Textual searching is fundamentally broken

                      Except those nice Ubuntu people add generic descriptions to the search, so I can type "text" to launch gedit or "spread" to launch LibreOffice Calc without ever knowing what they're called.

                  2. Pascal Monett Silver badge

                    Re: all you have to do is type a couple letters and hit enter

                    And all a skiddie has to do is put some exe on your PC that starts with the same couple letters and you'll be launching it without even realizing.

                    All I have to do is launch the shortcut. Given that I have eyes and know how to use them, and given that I also know how to use Windows since 1995, it is not a problem for me. All the apps I need to launch have their shortcuts either on my desktop or in the taskbar. It's called organization, you might want to look that up.

                    Go on searching if that makes you feel superior, but leave me my shortcuts.

                    1. Anonymous Coward
                      Anonymous Coward

                      Re: all you have to do is type a couple letters and hit enter

                      >>And all a skiddie has to do is put some exe on your PC that starts with the same couple letters and you'll be launching it without even realizing.

                      Sure, because that's your biggest security concern when you're giving skiddies access to your machine.

                      I'm being sarcastic, by the way.

                  3. Swarthy
                    Boffin

                    Re: looking for apps

                    Are you confident that you can launch any app on your machine in about a second any other way?
                    Yes.

                    Win+R, type in the program (NOT 'app') name and enter. Possibly use the down arrow to pick it up from history.

                    1. Anonymous Coward
                      Anonymous Coward

                      Re: looking for apps

                      >>Are you confident that you can launch any app on your machine in about a second any other way?

                      >>Yes.

                      >>Win+R, type in the program (NOT 'app') name and enter. Possibly use the down arrow to pick it up from history.

                      Great. How is that not a search feature? Or should I thank you for proving my point?

                      1. Joseph Eoff

                        Re: looking for apps

                        Because "Windows R" doesn't search. It simply executes what ever you've typed in - and if you type wrong you get an error message. The selection box is only a list of things you've entered before - it is NOT a list of things on your computer.

                        1. Anonymous Coward
                          Anonymous Coward

                          Re: looking for apps

                          >>Because "Windows R" doesn't search. It simply executes what ever you've typed in - and if you type wrong you get an error message. The selection box is only a list of things you've entered before - it is NOT a list of things on your computer.

                          If you want to be pedantic about this stuff, the search in your case is being executed on the things you've entered before, in order to populate the selection box. Search doesn't necessarily mean searching files on a computer. The end result is similar to launching an application via Spotlight in OS X, etc.

                  4. MrNed

                    Re: looking for apps

                    "So you think my way is worse even though you've never tried it. That's a brave stance to take."

                    I said nothing of the sort - where did you imagine that one up from? And even if I had, it's not as brave a stance as having a go at someone based on an imaginary premise.

                    "Where you left them is irrelevant. You must think the search features tell you where you put the apps so you can then launch them the same way you usually do."

                    Hahaha - you're funny - who's taking a brave stance now? Imagining all sorts based on... umm... well, I don't know. Like most commenters on this site, I have more than a passing familiarity with many aspects of computing, including how search features work. .

                    "Are you confident that you can launch any app on your machine in about a second any other way?".

                    Some - less than a second, sure. They're right there on the dock - grab mouse, click, boom - an app launches. It's quite astonishing, really it is.

                    But I'm just looking for where I said that I begrudge the extra second it takes me to launch an app that isn't on my dock...? I'm sure it would be nice to save up all of those seconds and spend them on a nice holiday somewhere, away from dickheads and numbnuts. But I know that in reality they'll all be stolen by my boss and chalked up to "efficiency savings", so I think I'll keep those fleeting moments to myself thankyou very much, and stick by my personal view that I don't get the fascination with search features because things will be where I put them.

                    And, you know, having that extra second gives me time to ponder the deeper things - life, the Universe... everything. Maybe you should try it...

                    ...then again, perhaps you should reclaim those lost seconds and spend them on a return to kindergarten comprehension class, because it appears that you read one thing but imagine you've read another. Word of advice though: until you've been back to school, don't go around demonstrating your ignorance by spouting off like this in public. Just makes you look stupid, and I'm sure you're not.

                    Funny old world, innit?

                    1. Anonymous Coward
                      Anonymous Coward

                      Re: looking for apps

                      >>I said nothing of the sort - where did you imagine that one up from? And even if I had, it's not as brave a stance as having a go at someone based on an imaginary premise.

                      You said you "never use search on any of them," i.e., any one of many different OSs.

                      I suppose I jumped the gun on my interpretation that you've never used search in the past. On the other hand, if you meant that you used to use search and stopped, then why not just say that and avoid the ambiguity?

                      I'll take a reading comprehension class as soon as you take a writing class.

                  5. Anonymous Coward
                    Anonymous Coward

                    Re: looking for apps

                    The search features launch the apps directly, so to launch any app on your machine, all you have to do is type a couple letters and hit enter.

                    Like this?

                    RC=0 stuartl@vk4msl-mb ~ $ fir_[tab]

                    RC=0 stuartl@vk4msl-mb ~ $ firefox _

                3. Graham Triggs

                  Re: looking for apps

                  Horses for courses.

                  I always used to use the start menu, or the Applications folder on Mac. But with Windows 8, rather than try to deal with sorting out the start screen, if I know what I want I usually just hit the win key and type the name - and it pops up in search.

                4. deconstructionist

                  Re: looking for apps

                  odd most used function in a enterprise environment, type 3 letters and it presents most thing like type SSO for the sso admin, type bi for BizTalk saves so much hassle don't know any of the other consultants or architects in my team that don't use it as a first point to start up an app.

                  Another odd thing about this article is about how it works on a tablet like MS has corner the market in tablet...wait that's right it has not , so who cares how it works on a tablet that why 8 failed like Eddie the eagle Edwards as in not really suited to what was required , MS has a truck load of work to convince the Enterprise market that it has shed all of Ballmer's madness, 10 needs to be enterprise ready from the get go this one OS for all is narrow band thinking(straight buzzshit from ballmer)

              3. Pascal Monett Silver badge

                Re: If you aren't using search [..] you're doing it wrong

                Well bugger me.

                Here I was still thinking that computers were supposed to simplify my life and that a shortcut was a pretty handy way of doing things.

                Thank you for enlightening me. I will forthwith scramble all my possessions in all my drawers and cupboards, put my DVDs in the garage and my tools in the bathroom and spend the rest of my life wasting hours finding back whatever it is I might need to something I might want to do.

                NOT.

                1. John Robson Silver badge

                  Re: If you aren't using search [..] you're doing it wrong

                  "I will forthwith scramble all my possessions in all my drawers and cupboards, put my DVDs in the garage and my tools in the bathroom and spend the rest of my life wasting hours finding back whatever it is I might need to something I might want to do."

                  If only we had something which could rapidly do the search for me, and get the relevant tool/dvd to me quickly.

                  In Win7 or OSx or Linux I press a specified key, then a couple of characters of the program I want. This has normally uniquely selected the program, so I can hit enter without ever moving my hands from the home keys.

                  That's generally significantly faster than trying to remember which sub menu I've stored something in, and select the menu, the sub menu and then the item - and losing my place on the keyboard...

                  A better analogy might be a DVD shelf where you start to speak the name of the film and you are given the DVD before you've finished the first word* of the title, or at worst a selection of two or three discs (normally a series no doubt).

                  * "The" doesn't count in the context of a film title

              4. Richard 126

                Re: looking for apps

                The trouble with search for everything and the time you really need a good menu is when you have no idea what is installed on the computer. This happens when some Luser who appears to be stuck irrevocably in dummy mode brings me a laptop with the complaint that some program they have forgotten the name of, made to do some job, but they can't remember what is doing or maybe not doing something that maybe it should or shouldn't be doing. Really handy at this time to have a good menu to scroll though to find out what on earth is on the box. Not perhaps as useful as an over voltage cattle prod but useful.

            2. big_D Silver badge

              Re: looking for apps

              @Pascal I rarely use the start menu / start screen to look for apps. I press the Windows key, type in the first few letters of the app name and hit enter, much faster than searching through the Windows 7 start menu - especially on an administered machine, where you need the admin password (which I don't have) in order to arrange the list of apps into some semblance of order.

              For the most part, the apps I use on a daily basis are fixed to the taskbar, so I don't need the start menu very often.

            3. Mark 65

              Re: looking for apps

              Really, everything I read about Windows 10 makes me not want to lose Windows 7.

              Meet Windows 7, it's the new Windows XP with security fixes out until Jan 14 2020.

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            >>Personally I love being able to multitask when the modal start-menu is on-screen in W7. Hang on, I can't.

            Personally I love being able to start an app (a simple process that I do often) without having to suffer through two full-screen animations in rapid succession. Hang on, I can't.

          3. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Personally I love being able to multitask when the modal start-menu is on-screen in W7. Hang on, I can't. Maybe the other 95% of the screen could serve some purpose when looking for apps...

            Like keeping a document in view so that you can continue referring to it as you look for other said app in the start menu?

    2. Michael B.

      Good job it's not the default and requires you to select Full Screen mode when using the Mouse. The default Start Menu style is the merged Metro/Win 7 style.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        But without search or categories (just tiles and apps in alphabetical order)

      2. P. Lee

        >The default Start Menu style is the merged Metro/Win 7 style.

        But WHY?

        There is a tablet mode - use the metro style with that. There is a desktop mode, use the W7 mode with that.

        Don't splat tiles around in menus when I'm using a mouse - that just makes me have to move the mouse more.

        IS this design based on someone's ego and rank?

    3. TheVogon

      "Ugly, incomplete, buggy: Windows 10"

      That's probably what Service Pack 1 (or whatever they decide to call the first major point release) will fix! Disagree on the ugly though - I think it looks pretty cool already.

      Microsoft's recent OSs have all been useable and very stable out of the door, but there are always plenty of things to improve, clean up and optimise later...

  2. Simon Jones [MSDL]

    Ugly, inconsistent, unfinished, and dangerous

    Icons in File Explorer are BRIGHT yellow and VERY ugly.

    Icon in Settings are blue-grey stick things and indecipherable.

    File Explorer "Favourite" shortcuts have been replaced by "Quick Access" pseudo-shortcuts that you can't rename, can't reorder, don't show the correct "breadcrumbs" and deleting them will delete the underlying folder if you're not careful!

    Definitely going backwards in some departments - hopefully to go forward again eventually.

    1. Robin

      Re: Ugly, inconsistent, unfinished, and dangerous

      While we're on the subject of File Explorer... Hopefully they're doing this with the Spartan thing, but I've wished for ages that they'd ditch the 'xyz Explorer' nomenclature.

      I've lost count of the number of times I've been standing behind somebody at their desk and asked them to open explorer while we're doing some file-related task.

      "The internet?"

      "No, Windows Explorer."

      So IE gets opened anyway.

      I'm a developer as well, so I hate to think how often the frontline support guys have to deal with this.

      While they're at it, they can ditch the "My xyz" as well. It's led to some lazy naming in coding, and the change in metaphor from clicking on "My Computer" and being told something about "your computer" is strange.

      1. jaywin

        Re: Ugly, inconsistent, unfinished, and dangerous

        That's hardly surprising considering virtually nobody ever clicks anything that says Explorer, or sees a window that says Explorer in the title bar, when they need to look at files on their computer.

        I suspect if you used the full name of the program "Windows Explorer" (or "File Explorer" in earlier versions), people wouldn't be questioning whether you mean Internet Explorer.

        Personally, I just tell them to open My Computer from the Desktop. Everybody knows what that is, and knows where to find it (unless they've managed to hide the desktop icons *again*).

      2. hplasm
        Happy

        Re: Ugly, inconsistent, unfinished, and dangerous

        "While we're on the subject of File Explorer... "

        It has to be called that to explain the feeling that using Windows is like hacking through a dense, impenetrable jungle...

        1. MrNed
          Coffee/keyboard

          Re: Ugly, inconsistent, unfinished, and dangerous

          "It has to be called that to explain the feeling that using Windows is like hacking through a dense, impenetrable jungle..."

          Wish I could give you 10 thumbs up for that one.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Holmes

    I put it on a desktop system

    Works fine. Only real problem I had was the driver for a Netgear USB wifi dongle wouldn't load - I had to swap it out for a Linksys wifi dongle.

    Sometimes Windows 10 throws up weird messages. For instance, about twice a day I'm reminded that my plugged-in desktop has "0% Battery". Not a real problem though - the system is basically stable, which was my biggest concern. I'm running Visual Studio (Community edition), Unreal Engine 4 and Chrome on it, along with Malwarebytes and a few utilities like CCleaner.

    Start menu is a bit messy - I'll probably load the free Classic Shell version eventually. But honestly, the Classic Shell team does Start menus so much better than nearly anyone else right now, there's no reason not to install it. I even install it on my Win7 machines because it's just simply better.

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