back to article Windows 10: The Microsoft rule-o-three holds, THIS time it's looking DECENT

The old adage that you never install a Microsoft product until version three appears to be holding true in operating systems with Windows 10. Windows 8 was a disaster, Windows 8.1 a waystation, but Windows 10 is looking like a very solid system. "We want people to love Windows on a daily basis," said CEO Satya Nadella at …

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  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Read the whole thing...

    Big bag of upgraded nothingness...almost

    "..Microsoft claimed that this could lead to a 50 per cent performance boost for some games."

    Well, without further explanation I must assume the upgrade fixes hindering bugs and uses hardware features previously unused, not new magical coding practices. But then again it does state some games, so maybe Microsoft (TM) games like Halo or whatever get full features, while the others remain hindered for not signing the "Games For Windows" b.s.? I'm curious here because 50% is ridiculously huge unless they recoded from some C++/JAVA spaghetti mess (probable) to ASM or even C, so there has to be some reasoning behind the term "some" (faster unwinding, recursion, ???).

    Anyways, I don't think they'll get me on "Windows Free For a Year", because like anyone previously incarcerated, I prefer "Windows Free For Life".

    1. Ketlan
      Devil

      Re: Read the whole thing...

      Gotta say I agree with this. Windows 10 free for life - great, I'll take two. Windows 10 free for a year - they can shove it: I'll stick to 7, thank you.

      1. P. Lee

        Re: Read the whole thing...

        > Gotta say I agree with this. Windows 10 free for life - great, I'll take two. Windows 10 free for a year - they can shove it: I'll stick to 7, thank you.

        +1

        Windows has two uses: work and games: Work Windows gets installed into a VM. Nice for moving it between hardware and, ahem, testing upgrades. Gaming Windows gets W7 or W8. It really doesn't matter two hoots, since Steam is set to start automatically.

        There will be consumers who upgrade because it looks like a free upgrade and support is being pulled. That won't be me. Even if MS drops security fixes, it doesn't really matter because I have golden images for Work Windows and Games Windows doesn't browse except to very well known sites, it doesn't deal with email, IM (except Skype). Games Windows can also be re-installed if required. It's no big deal. All my important stuff runs on Linux or OSX.

        For Small Biz it will be great to keep paying out for stuff they didn't upgrade for years. I'm sure they'll love it! Not. A lot of these places are not tied into the MS ecosystem. No Exchange or Lync to help drive upgrades. They use gmail and some Word/excel macros to generate invoices. Apps are the thing. Click on the "X" or the "W" or the "E" is all they need.

        Medium Biz is probably in the same boat, except that they do have windows server products which drive upgrades, because externally connected servers do need patching. I'm reasonably sure they don't like to upgrade so frequently though and they are price sensitive.

        Big biz will carry on as usual. There ain't no upgrades coming through until they've been tested. I'm pretty sure they'll resist because they never really did the 3-year windows-upgrade thing so they won't want a subscription model which is going to double their costs over 5-6 years. They still have to do all the testing so there is no pain-relief for them from MS here. Rolling upgrades won't fly. They won't want to move from 7 to 10 any time soon.

        The upshot is, no-one likes upgrades except the vendors. Users like features. Hey Cortana, why is voice control very cool but slower and less reliable than other UI's? Hey Cortana, why is MS tying application features like games streaming to an OS rather than keeping them layered as applications on top of the OS? Why do they think streaming is a killer feature when Steam has been doing it for a while now and, quite frankly, it isn't that useful. Hey Cortana, do most browser-users think browsing is too slow and the reason is their local software?

        Don't get me wrong, I suspect W10 will be better than 8.x and will have interesting things in it. I'm just not convinced that most users want to pay for their OS as a service, or indeed that it offers enough to make it worth paying for, again and again and again. Compute as service, storage as a service has had a difficult enough time with dirt-cheap providers. When compute as a service turns out to be more expensive than the other option, it will be a hard sell.

        That's assuming it is an option. If MS has saturated their market and looks to increase revenue by charging existing users more, the value proposition begins to look shaky. Upgrade every three years instead of six or nine or twelve and you are seriously increasing your desktop costs. Home users might start looking more seriously at Apple. Lovely to look at, lovely to hold, free upgrades. Hmmm. When great uncle Albert's PC stops working because he didn't know he had to keep paying, some little pip-squeak is going to either replace it with an old mac or a linux installation. Maybe linux running on an old mac.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Read the whole thing...

          "Cortana?"

          "Yes Dave?"

          "Go F**k yourself"

          "I'm sorry Dave I can't allow that."

          {in the background does the equivalent of 'cd /;rm -fr'} :)

          If there is one thing that is going to piss me off is an office where a dozen (or more) PC using Cortana are all babbling at the same time because the users have not figured out how to nuke it.

          MS have obviously not thought this through.

          1. returnmyjedi

            Re: Read the whole thing...

            If it means that office dwellers jabber insanely to a digital assistant rather than me, I'm one socially stunted weirdo that welcomes the inclusion of Cortana.

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Read the whole thing...

            Cortana isn't voice recognition - it can certainly use voice recognition as an interface, but it's just as capable of using a keyboard as an interface too. I was pretty impressed with Cortana on my old WinPhone - when I was alone I'd talk to it and it recognized my speech with spookily high accuracy, but when I was surrounded by people I'd type into it and it worked just as well without bothering everyone.

      2. FuzzyTheBear
        Stop

        Re: Read the whole thing...

        Yeah the first dose is free ..

        Nope no thanks this one wont fly .. win 7 is stable , does the job for the little i use windows wy should i go to 10 and pay and pay when the kit i have works perfectly well for the use i have ?

        Nope , the yearly subscription is just subscribing to misery and probably more expensive than an outright buy . I haven't seen numbers yet fee/year but the whole thing smells.

        1. big_D Silver badge

          Re: Read the whole thing...

          The upgrade is free for the first year. You only uprgade once!

          If you don't upgrade in the first year, you might have to pay the normal upgrade price - this is much like the upgrade offer Windows 8 had, you could get it for 25€ for the first 6 months or so, then it went up to full price.

          They have already said that the PC will be supported with new releases for "the supported lifetime of the PC".

          That bit is open to interpretation - until it dies? Or until Windows requires newer processors and peripherals?

          1. Paul Shirley

            Re: Read the whole thing...

            "the supported lifetime of the PC" - one interpretation of device. I want to see the small print before upgrading to make sure I'm not giving up my ability to swap out mboard every couple of years. My PC is the collection of parts I'm currently using, not a specific device.

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Read the whole thing...

        I'm already completely Windows-free and happy to remain so. But it does seem like Microsoft is making a very concerted effort to get to where OS X was two years ago.

        1. Stuart 22

          Re: Read the whole thing...

          It is almost worth getting Win10 just to see how well these things interlink and work. But, and its a big but, Microsoft are only going the way its two rivals have preceded it. And I'm not sure i want to go along for the ride.

          We do seem to be increasingly irritated by ads that have tried to read our minds and failed, by digital assistants who pop up to help and don't seem to understand "go away" in vernacular speak. If I want to ask a question I will ask but to get an answer to a question I have yet to ask and get it wrong is unforgivable.

          These are phones, tablets PERSONAL computers. I want them to do what I want them to do - not be sucked up into what the Borg has decided I should do.

          Perhaps that's why I finding command line operation increasingly satisfying when using a desktop ... Maybe the time has come for MS-DOS 10 ;-)

    2. glussier

      Re: Read the whole thing...

      The increase in performance comes from directx 12 which has more direct access to the hardware, but better use of the cpu cores than previous directx versions.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Read the whole thing...

      LOL, 50% speed boost. Microsoft hyperbole.

      I won't be upgrading. I'm perfectly happy on Windows 7, and Windows 10, even if it's free for 1 year (or even life), still looks far too much like Windows8 with a start button for my liking. Still got silly tiles, still got too much Metro.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Read the whole thing...

        "LOL, 50% speed boost. Microsoft hyperbole."

        No, the 50% speed boost comes from 50% more speed!

    4. Dave 126 Silver badge

      Re: Read the whole thing...

      >[ Microsoft claimed that this could lead to a 50 per cent performance boost for some games.] Well, without further explanation I must assume the upgrade fixes hindering bugs and uses hardware features previously unused

      Yeah, why use Google when you can just assume? Let's see what impressions professionals from the hardware and game engine industries have:

      "DX12 has the potential to be much more efficient than DX11 at the cost of some effort on the part of the developer."

      nVidia engineer Henry Moreton http://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2014/09/19/maxwell-and-dx12-delivered/

      "Right now, it’s too early to discuss performance due to the alpha state of Windows 10 and DirectX 12 drivers, however we are happy with the numbers we’re seeing."

      Unity blog http://blogs.unity3d.com/2015/01/22/staying-ahead-with-directx-12/

      Sounds cautiously optimistic, no?

      The 50% claim is for games in which the bottleneck is the CPU (so generally not FPSs like Crysis, you mentioned Halo but there hasn't been a PC version for years).

  2. James 51

    My PC doesn't have a touch screen and I don't have a microphone either. How is it going to cope on low/mid level powered systems without those features.

    1. big_D Silver badge

      Much like Windows 8.1 does today...

      I use it on an older laptop with multiple attached monitors, no touch. It works very nicely.

      Windows 10 should work even better.

      Windows 8.1 doesn't need touch and Windows 10 won't either, nor will a microphone an speakers be essential either - depending on what you want to use it for.

      1. James 51

        I have used 8 and 8.1 without a touchscreen and DOS was less opaque and frustrating (and bloody stupid by design).

    2. Fungus Bob

      Re: ...and I don't have a microphone either. How is it going to cope

      Cortana will think she's Helen Keller.

  3. Jonski
    Paris Hilton

    Oops, wonder how THAT got in there?!?

    All of the data in these applications will be switched between phones and PCs seamlessly, Microsoft promises, and users will be able to back up and sync their data to Azure. For example, pictures taken on the smartphone will be uploaded to Azure

    That'll be interesting. How to keep my family life, my personal life and my business life separate. Nothing worse than a <ahem> "bedroom" photo ending up in the middle of a work presentation, or worse, your partner seeing what really happened at that out-of-town conference.

    1. Paul Crawford Silver badge

      Re: Oops, wonder how THAT got in there?!?

      Different log-in accounts?

      But seriously, it is a point - I can imagine a lot of people not wanting all of their stuff in US clutches once they understand what this implies.

      1. Kristian Walsh Silver badge

        Re: Oops, wonder how THAT got in there?!?

        I can imagine a lot of people not wanting all of their stuff in US clutches once they understand what this implies.

        I'm surprised you missed one of the biggest ongoing data-privacy cases of 2014, but here's a summary:

        http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/09/23/microsoft_vs_the_long_arm_of_us_law/

        tl;dr = Microsoft won't store your private data on servers under US jurisdiction.

        1. Paul Shirley

          Re: Oops, wonder how THAT got in there?!?

          The us gov don't believe there are any jurisdictions outside their reach when a us company is involved. The courts haven't told them they're wrong yet. Might want to hold off trusting them till that happens.

          Then decide if you really want your local authorities able to raid your data on Microsoft servers so easily.

    2. This post has been deleted by its author

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Meh

      Re: Oops, wonder how THAT got in there?!?

      You just turn off syncing, just as you do now.

  4. J. R. Hartley

    As much as it pains me to say this...

    I am actually looking forward to this :/ :/ :/

    1. Cliff

      Re: As much as it pains me to say this...

      Likewise. I keep my hardware broadly current, have a win8 --> 8.1 device I still find confusing and can't see the benefit of metro turning my laptop stupid and running single apps full screen like the Dos days. I use some legacy and oddball programmes so need Windows platform, and actually am very happy with Windows for most things I need to do. A new XP? Great, I'll take it.

      New browser, OK, why not? I'll give it a go. My browser preference is not as hard and fast as some zealots, so light weight IE might be alright.

      Cortana - I've played with MS various incarnations of voice recognition in the past, never loving any of them enough to actually use. Maybe this incarnation will be better - deep integration will make a difference to it's usefulness, and 'Cortana' sounds less shit than 'OK, Google'.

      So yeah, give me your best shot, Microsoft. You've got some great engineers and minds*, let them win me over. Over the top services - make the platform free and great and price them right and I can get my head around that. Please just don't fuck it up.

      *Seriously, there are some incredible people there, amazing research, quality engineers. There are also some complete twats who keep renaming products either to take advantage of a good brand or duck a sullied one, or just to irritate me. I think they're in marketing, and Microsoft is terrible at marketing.

      1. wowfood

        Re: As much as it pains me to say this...

        I tried windows 8 for a while and honestly didn't mesh with it. There were certain design choices with it that just didn't agree with me, much like I'm still not a fan of the ribbon etc.

        I will probably give win10 a try after it's been out for a few months. Don't want to be an 'early adopter' but at the same time I won't be installing it on my main PC straight away, I'll probably put it on my spare PC first and see how things go with that.

        Worst case scenario nothing lost and I can just reinstall win7 over the top without losing much, best case scenario it's some kind of miracle OS, I like it and I install it on my main PC. There's no harm in trying it at least, even if my spare PC is running on an e8400

      2. Spiracle
        Boffin

        Re: As much as it pains me to say this...

        'Cortana' sounds less shit than 'OK, Google'.

        I've been experimenting on my Nexus and it seems to me that it only listens for a series of four hard vowel sounds, so a chimp-like "oh ay ooh ooh" seems to work and you can even get away with "Ewah WooWoo" sometimes.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Childcatcher

          Re: As much as it pains me to say this...

          I've been experimenting on my Nexus ... chimp-like "oh ay ooh ooh" seems to work and you can even get away with "Ewah WooWoo"

          Ah, so YOU where that weirdo on the train!

          1. Yugguy

            Re: As much as it pains me to say this...

            Superb - I'm going to have to renable Google Now on my phone just so I can try this.

            Obviously it will be disabled as soon as I get bored with gibbering.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: As much as it pains me to say this...

              "OK, Bilbo" works for me. Doesn't make me sound less of an idiot though....

        2. David 132 Silver badge
          Happy

          Re: As much as it pains me to say this...

          >you can even get away with "Ewah WooWoo" sometimes.

          +1 upvote for reminding me of the old "Why does Edward Woodward have so many D's in his name?" joke*, which still makes me snigger like an 8-year-old.

          *punchline: "Because if he didn't, he'd be E-wah Woo-Wah". I've never claimed to have a sophisticated sense of humor.

  5. pirithous

    Cortana and the back-end database will be a new spying tool used by NSA. Imagine all of the data collection that will be going on with it, not to mention that it's a "feature" that's always listening. We've had voice recognition on PC's for many years, and it only found a niche market. Most people don't like talking to their PC; let's not forget that Windows 7 had built-in voice recognition and nobody used it. Sure, it sucked, but it still did some things okay, and most people never knew it ever existed.

    All I see MS doing is slapping a bunch of unnecessary processes on top of the NT kernel, yet there's still the discombobulated registry which became its own filesystem a long time ago, and the slow performing NTFS filesystem and other bits of Windows which have fallen behind Linux in terms of features, security, and performance. So the point here, is that you have a bunch of useless doodads soaking up memory and CPU cycles, running on top of an architecture that pretty much stinks. Microsoft is putting more lipstick on the pig.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      WTF?

      Yup, after all no one uses Siri do they?

  6. Greg J Preece

    Some interesting features. I'm optimistic, so long as:

    1) It doesn't track every last sodding thing you do.

    2) Where it does have info-hungry apps like Cortana and the like, there is an off switch. Remember that one, Microsoft? Not everyone hates Metro (I don't), but everyone hates that it was mandatory.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      @Greg J Preece

      You're asking too much from Microsoft!

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Meh

      Well if it's like Windows phone, you just let me see...it's so difficult.....Hmmm how do you do it again...oh yeah, you click the slider to turn off Cortana.

      1. Greg J Preece

        That would be nice - let's hope Microsoft do that. In fairness to them, the various data reporting things in Windows 8.1 were mostly set to "off" by default, and there was a switch for each one. I'd be tempted by a Win10 phone, too. While I use Android, I have no particular affection for it, and the Windows phone I've used in the past was a pretty slick experience, even if the one I had at the time was very basic.

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I'll let the consumer version of W10 pass

    Let's see what the professional/business version has to offer. Anyway contributing to insuring a healthy constant revenue stream for Microsoft is not among my favorites.

  8. zen1

    Loved?

    Seriously, did he say "The most 'loved' Windows, yet"? OK I think somebody is seriously high. Given that MS single handedly killed over 15% of the PC market by sticking us with 8 & 8.1, there's not a chance in hell that I'm going to touch another MS OS at least until it's second or third SP.

    1. Ken Hagan Gold badge

      Re: Loved?

      "here's not a chance in hell that I'm going to touch another MS OS at least until it's second or third SP."

      This *is* Windows 8 Service Pack 4-ish. In fact, if you can see your way past (or disable) Metro then it is Windows 7 Service Pack 6 or Windows Vista Service Pack 9. Under the hood, MS have done sweet FA for the best part of a decade, except slowly scrub out the warts in Vista that weren't intended.

      1. AMBxx Silver badge

        Re: Loved?

        Right, so the new network stuff and HyperV are just fluff?

    2. Michael Habel

      Re: Loved?

      And here I thought M$ were through with Service Packs...

    3. Fungus Bob

      Re: Loved?

      "MS single handedly killed over 15% of the PC market"

      Perhaps they've given up on the PC market and hope to firm up the fake Viagra market - they do want people to _love_ Windows on a daily basis and Cortana's not bad looking...

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cortana_(Halo)

  9. Captain DaFt

    YOU WILL LOVE ME!!!

    "We want people to love Windows on a daily basis,"

    All these years, three different CEOs, and Microsoft still doesn't get it.

    Nobody gives a tinker's damn about the OS unless it keeps getting in the way of what they're trying to do, and then they HATE it.

    People buy computers to run software to do things, games to relax, and browsers to waste time educate themselves. The quicker and easier the OS lets them do what they want to do, without being a major pain, the better.

    "We will make Windows 10 the most loved version of Windows ever."

    Translation: Once we get Win 10 on your system, we will never let you forget, for a microsecond, that you are 'enjoying' the Microsoft experience, no matter what you're trying to do on your computer, and you'll never leave us again, because CLOUD!

    1. Dazed and Confused
      Facepalm

      Re: YOU WILL LOVE ME!!!

      > We want people to love Windows on a daily basis,"

      I think someone is seriously misunderstanding when I scream "F*&^ YOU!" at my computer

    2. MJI Silver badge

      Re: YOU WILL LOVE ME!!!

      I just want a computer to do what I want. Different prettyness no problem, but completely methods aghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

      Basically Windows was very similar from the one after Program Manager (95) to 7, that is well over 15 years of the same style. Well guess what they got the basic idea right.

      I do not want confusing GUIs, as far as I am concerned ANY keyboard based GUI program should have a menu at the top. Basically the File Edit, so when non Windows OSes look more like Windows than Windows there is something wrong.

      All the ribbon applications should have had a proper menu as well, I needed a news group reader in Win 7 so took the easy choice of Thunderbird.

      MS Word I have to use addins with the file edit patch.

      So basically do not get in the way of me working.

      Oh and for anyone saying I could learn all the new features (which are just as likely to be rejected at a later date) of something I use when necessary I would rather use the time to improve my programming skills. (.NET is the next one).

      Look I am over 50 now, and the last thing I want to do is spend my own time working out how something should work, when it should just work. It was not hard to build two Win7/Mint 17 dual boot gaming PCs.

      I was fine in the DOS days, I loved Netware, Multiuser DOS was very good, I was OK with Windows. I even ran WFW on the Real32 server.

      I will have a play with 10, we have a 8.x PC at work everyone avoids, then we will see how annoying it is.

      1. Greg J Preece

        Re: YOU WILL LOVE ME!!!

        Can we get "completely methods aghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh" as the QOTW?

  10. gubbool

    Oh boy... imagine, an office full of talking people and talking computer.

    I can't see where ANY of the new features are going to sway the business environment - BIG or small. If user experience was a factor in the business world MS would be have years ago; especially considering its early BSOD reputation.

    I hope to be dead in 2020 which is the proposed end of life for Win7.

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