French Google fund to pay for 1 million print run of Charlie Hebdo next week Money put into a fund by Google as a sweetener for French publishers during the link tax row of 2013 will be used to pay for next week’s edition of Charlie Hebdo. Following an attack by gunmen on the magazine's offices in Paris on Wednesday – in which 12 people were killed – the media world has come together to support the …
Anyone more offended by "needling, taunting and provoking" cartoons than by the murders of 12 innocent people is seriously in need of help. No one ever died from looking at a cartoon.
I'm often offended by various media sources, especially as I'm an atheist. But I don't pick up a battle rifle and storm Fox News HQ, or sit on my butt and encourage others to do so. I simply rarely watch their cable channel or read their Website. At worst I might complain in an online forum or among friends, who are similarly opposed to using violence to express their dissatisfaction with this or that.
I hope this helps you gain some perspective.
I want to add to my previous comment. I don't for a second believe the 'Charlie' murderers were acting as Muslims. I think they were violent psychopaths for whom alleged religious belief gave a cover for their disgusting acts. If they hadn't "discovered" religion they'd likely have found some other excuse to act out their frustration at being losers.
Blogger and professor Juan Cole suggests their acts were intended to provoke attacks against innocent Muslims, causing an "Islamic Awakening" (my term) in France where, according to Cole, most Muslims are not religiously or politically active. Misery loves company, and these psychos seem intent only on dragging other Muslims down to their depraved level. Let's be careful not to play into their sick scenario.
Every religious and political group has a lunatic fringe. US is majority Christian but there is a deeply dysfunctional Christian minority. The difference is that its murders are mostly State acts rather than those of individuals. The same of course applies to Russia, Iran, China, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia.
Saudi Arabia executes about 19 people a month for things that are at worst minor civil offences in the developed world. It also is prepared to flog a journalist to death over 20 weeks for daring to ask for civil liberties. If you want the source of the Islamist poison, it isn't in Islam per se but in the violent rule of Wahabist sects which are trying to take over Islam, funded by a State for which Wahabism is the national religion. Iran is pretty bad internally but it doesn't export its madness to anything like the same degree.
The world needs to have a conversation about Wahabism and Pakistani tribal religion (another major source of problems), rather than blanket condemnation of "Muslims" as per Rupert Murdoch.
Every religious and political group has a lunatic fringe.
Indeed. While Islam gets its bad rap these days, most media (especially the rightwinger ones) conveniently sidestep the nasty incidents commited by Christian or Catholic terrorists.
The late 1920s Cristero uprising, with many despicable things commited in the name of the Catholic Church. If you swapped "Catholics" for "Muslims", you'd think you were reading about the Taliban.
The 1977 Atocha massacre in Spain, made by a fringe far-right group called the Apostolic Anticommunist Alliance, linked to the religious fascist Franco regime that had collapsed just two years earlier.
The Olympic Park bomber, who for some weird reason isn't labeled as a terrorist.
Yet no one judges all Catholics, or Christians based on these nasty people. And they shouldn't. Now, why is that so hard to follow up with Muslims?
Yet no one judges all Catholics, or Christians based on these nasty people. And they shouldn't. Now, why is that so hard to follow up with Muslims?
Partly because it's the past and not in the present. The other reason is because they rub in everyone's face that were all infidels, heretics, etc. and then follow up with atrocities. Just look at the crap that going on in the Middle East between the various sects.
Did Breivik go massacring people in the name of his religion? Because someone "insulted" his prophet? No, he did it because of his political/racist views, not his religious ones.
I'm sick and tired of terrorists' apologists bringing up Breivik each time a non-Christian nutjob commits an atrocity. And Breivik was one - how many of the other lot are there?
"I think you missed the point. A gun-totting nutter is a gun-totting nutter whatever excuse he gives. Religion, nationalism, not liking Mondays? The excuse is irrelevant."
A nutter, is a nutter, is a nutter. I quite agree.
However, a comprehension of the base ideological framework of extreme religious fundamentalism is still key here. Religious extremism can be neither understood nor addressed if we consider religion a mere irrelevance.
On a different tack, and a thought that has just popped into my head whilst typing the above. I find myself wondering why it is only now that the UK government are making lots of noise about UK citizens travelling overseas to fight when, in fact, it has been happening for decades (Pakistan based groups engaging in so-called jihad in Kashmir during the 90's and their later links to the Taliban and others, for example).
Except in this case, the Islamic faith actively encourages strong reaction to those that blaspheme their faith.
Look at the lashings Raif Badawi, and many others that speak out, receive. Other are put to death.
Violence, even murder, as a response to blasphemy of Islamic faith is not unusual.
And the bible mildly says "And he that blasphemeth the name of the lord, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him. Leviticus 24:16"
All religions are equal. All can be (mis)quoted to good or bad.
"[T]hey took the king's sons, and slew seventy persons, and put their heads in baskets, and sent him them to xxxx. And there came a messenger, and told him, saying, They have brought the heads of the king's sons. And he said, Lay ye them in two heaps at the entering in of the gate until the morning. "
"I will throw fear into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Then smite the necks and smite of them each finger."
Which religion?
Yes, all Abrahamic (and many other) religions are deeply flawed. We all know the Abrahamic God was a vindictive little shit. But you only need to compare the figureheads of Christianity and Islam, Jesus vs. Muhammad, to see the stark differences in how these religions shape its followers.
Please find me a verse in the new testament, or in any other text from the era, where Jesus goes around killing those that don't believe he is the son of god. Just one.
Muhammad, on the other hand, is all about dispatching pesky non-believers. Next to abusing young girls and subjugating women, it seems to be his favorite hobby.
There is simply no comparison. Islam is by far the most violent and bigoted religion [that's widely practiced] in our modern world.
Has Al-Quaeda been quicked out of Islam? Boko-Haram? IS? Anyone? If so I missed the memo.
We call these guys Fundamentalists. It's intended to mean that they are too Muslim. They focus so much on the Koran that they forget everything else. They don't know they're not acting like human beings anymore.
These things work in cycles. As generations pass the dominant religion changes and different religions feel oppressed. There is no overall moral high and low ground - just currently dominant factions.
All religions are equal in all ways, as generations pass they fragment and drift in different directions but ultimately they are all as (in)valid as each other.
There are thousands of religions believed by people at the moment, millions of forgotten religions and a infinite number of religions that have yet to be conceived. Isn't it a incredible coincidence that of all the millions of possible religions children tend to go for the one believed by their parents.
"Yet no one judges all Catholics, or Christians based on these nasty people.'
I'm sorry but you're full of shit. There are any number of atheists (including on this site) that will take any behavior by or belief of any Christian or group of Christians and use it to smear all Christians.
It takes effort not to see that.
Yes. I'm one of those atheists that will smear Christianity, or any religion, every chance I get.
But I'm also able to clearly see that Islam and Christianity are not even close when it comes to violence in the modern day.
You'll be hard pressed to find a verse in the new testament that says anything remotely close to:
Qur'an (6:93) - "Who can be more wicked than one who inventeth a lie against Allah?"
(Since the Qur'an prescribes death as the punishment for the crimes, by saying "What could be more wicked", the Qur'an is applying the death penalty for this.)
Qur'an (33:57) - "Lo! those who malign Allah and His messenger, Allah hath cursed them in this world and the Hereafter, and hath prepared for them the doom of the disdained"
And from the Hadtih:
Bukhari (4:241) - "Those who mocked Muhammad at Mecca were killed after he had retaken the city and asserted his authority."
Remember your history. Remember the barbaric actions of this beloved Muhammad. The "perfect" Muslim.
Islam is NOT a peaceful religion. Anyone that claims this is extremely ignorant about Islam, deluded beyond belief, or outright lying.
Winston Churchill said it best with:
"How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia [rabies] in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy."
And:
"Individual Muslims may show splendid qualities, but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world."
Simply put all religions are equal. I could elaborate and give examples but why bother - the point is simple and easy to understand. Just take any hate article and swap islam/jew or any other combination of religions . If you find that the result offends you less or more then consider why.
I disagree.
Like many other major religions, Islamic faith is a faith deeply rooted in bigotry and violence. However, while other major religions have generally softened over time, Islam is currently trending the other way.
And no, in case you're going to go there, it is not Islamophobia point out the this issues with the faith. I'm sick and tired of people constantly spouting on about how Islam is a peaceful religion. Yes, the vast majority of Muslims are peaceful, but no, Islam is not a peaceful religion.
... that the causes are simple, or that they are concentrated in one subset of people.
Western Europe has had two world wars and four countries with fascist dictatorships in the recent past and Eastern Europe has had some vicious governments and worse wars in the more recent past. Africa has it's atrocities, many countries have had multiple murders by a lone-gunman or bomber.
It's not what happens, it's how it is dealt with.
> Anyone more offended by "needling, taunting and provoking" cartoons than by the murders of 12 innocent people is seriously in need of help.
Drop the "innocent". You don't know that they were "innocent" and it is in any case irrelevant.
> No one ever died from looking at a cartoon.
Yes, but about 15 people died because of a cartoon being published, didn't they? And they didn't even die for a good cause because the consequences of this will be a further loss of civil liberties in the name of fighting "terrorism".
No, 15 people were _not_ killed because a cartoon was being published. More than 15 people were killed because of four people who are blasphemers (murdering people in the name of the prophet is blasphemy), murderers (obviously), with three cowardly committing suicide which is in itself worth burning in hell for, which also makes their claim that they are "martyrs" quite ridiculous.
Claiming that this cartoon caused the death of people is deeply offensive.
If you are so religious you can't stand people poking fun at some of the more outlandish acts done in your deity's name, perhaps it's time to take a closer look at what you believe and why.
Tolerance has to work both ways.
Nous sommes tous Charlie.
// I'm nominally Christan, and I like the cover of the Jew, the Pope and the Muslim all yelling that Charlie Hebdo must be veiled.
Indeed. I was actually saying that yesterday; this could be the darkest instance of the Streisand effect ever. It's also a special case, as most people who were originally slamming Charlie Hebdo for those cartoons now stand besides them because freedom of speech and not getting killed for it is more important now.
Je suis Charlie
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