Also keep in mind that Linux kernel development works on a timed-release basis. They release a new kernel regularly, and its up to the individual distros to decide if it's stable enough for production. A problem in a particular kernel release is not a problem if it's only used by kernel developers. The business basis for commercial distros is they will decide whether or not to pick up this kernel release or stick with an older one. Red Hat is famous for using old kernels and back-porting new drivers to it.
Linus Torvalds releases Linux 3.18 as 3.17 wobbles
Linus Torvalds has pressed the go button for a new release of his eponymous kernel. Linux version 3.18 was loosed on Sunday, US time, after what Torvalds wrote was a “tiny” patch to get release candidate 7 done. The new version's headline features for business users are better sleep and resumption for Linux servers, more …
COMMENTS
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Wednesday 10th December 2014 00:48 GMT Lars
Re: Seems wrong...
Pleas J3, that was silly.
Am I the only prick in this world who cannot stand his voice for longer than 29 seconds??. Give me anybody else, Gervais, no matter his relation between height and width, the Queen, hats or no hats, Sean Connery, +45 years old, any sketch of Monty Python, including the best they took part in, the one with the two priests. Give me John Wayne, double Dutch, triple Dutch, any language any man woman or cat but not the voice of John Oliver. Am I the only one in this world or am I in desperate need of a shrink(US). Help.
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Monday 8th December 2014 15:10 GMT 404
Re: Unknown source of kernel lock-ups?
@grifter
That *was* pretty easy, wasn't it? Unknown OS - did they use binary code? Probably not... yet connected to the alien mothership* quicker than a external serial USR 14.4 modem connecting to AOL...
*unbelievable... had to add 'mothership' to dictionary... another proof Microsoft & Google don't have a soul**
** Argument for another day, pardon me.
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Monday 8th December 2014 10:28 GMT Roadcrew
Re: a couple of people....
Unless, of course you include all the Linux Kernel users (notice that this is on topic!) - Android is not much of a desktop, although it can be made to work, sorta.
I'm referring to Google Chrome OS, which works well enough for us (and gazeeellions of others it seems), so long as one improves the storage on the ChromeBook/Box. USB3 sticks are pretty effective for that, we find.
It's surely true to say now that most of the Linux kernels crafted by Linus T and his team are installed in something other than a regular GNU-Linux distro.
Pretty surprising....
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Tuesday 9th December 2014 15:42 GMT Havin_it
@tnovelli Re: Unknown source of kernel lock-ups?
>Those aren't REAL Linux users. He's referring to the 2 veteran sysadmins who bothered to try the bleeding edge crap at all. ;)
"Veteran sysadmins" don't go anywhere near the bleeding-edge if they can help it. At least, those who started Devuan don't (your term is exactly how they style themselves).
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Monday 8th December 2014 12:48 GMT Roland6
Re: Unknown source of kernel lock-ups?
>It would depend on the severity of the bug really.
I think a bug that can cause lock-up when running Xen is pretty serious if you are planning to run Xen ie. host VMs.It wouldn't surprise me if RedHat or a similiar enterprise Linux vendor are the one's to actually get to the bottom of this; this sort of bug will bite them much more than the desktop Linux brigade.
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Tuesday 9th December 2014 09:48 GMT Jim 59
Re: Unknown source of kernel lock-ups?
A new Linux kernel is not an end-user product. It is just a component that early adopting distros might use after they subject it to their own test cycle. Then, after another 6 months of testing and usage, more stable distros might adopt it, but still fairly bleeding edge. After another year or so, it might make its way into a commercial distro (Say Red Hat 7.x).
After another couple of years, it might start to get used more widely in industry, like kernel 2.6.32, which is what you find in Red Hat 6, or 2.5.18 which is in RHEL5 and likely powering a large number of production servers. Eventually, embedded devices will get it, and webcams, DVD players, toys, industrial controllers and the rest of it.
So a lock-up in Linux 3.17 is indeed a serious issue, and enthusiasts may encounter and report it, but planes will not drop out of the sky. Instead, the bugs are publicized, publicly addressed and remediated. This isn't a scandal, it is what is supposed to happen.
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Monday 8th December 2014 11:53 GMT Snorlax
Re: Unknown source of kernel lock-ups?
"Almost all complex software is shipped with known bugs. Would you halt the release for an unknown length of time for the sake of "a couple of people"?"
Ha ha good one.
When a buggy linux kernel is released, that's ok.
When Windows issues an update for something, the rabid mob screams about MS selling defective products? What's the difference?
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Monday 8th December 2014 12:06 GMT P. Lee
Re: Unknown source of kernel lock-ups?
>When Windows issues an update for something, the rabid mob screams about MS selling defective products? What's the difference?
Er, its being given away for free?
The problem is also noted *before release*, so check out the problem-case and see it will affect you.
None of this, "this update contains fixes for windows. Click through these 3 websites, stand on your head and rub your tummy and we might consider telling you what its about.
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Monday 8th December 2014 20:45 GMT Anonymous Coward
I feel that I must defend Linux here.
It's easy to scoff, but that is really a plus point to Linux that you expect it to follow the same standards as you do with a real Operating System.
Remember, Linux is a toy - an impressive toy, to be fair - but still a toy, so it's unfair to expect the same of it as you would professional systems.
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Tuesday 9th December 2014 11:14 GMT h4rm0ny
Re: I feel that I must defend Linux here.
>>"Remember, Linux is a toy - an impressive toy, to be fair - but still a toy, so it's unfair to expect the same of it as you would professional systems."
Apparently a child sees everything as a toy. Even if that "toy" underlies billions of £'s of business daily.
Idiot trolls are idiot trolls regardless of their target.
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Tuesday 9th December 2014 12:09 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: I feel that I must defend Linux here.
>>It's easy to scoff, but that is really a plus point to Linux that you expect it to follow the same standards as you do with a real Operating System.
I'm guessing so kind of trolling here, Linux isn't an OS, it's a kernel used by OS's, which makes your comment nonsensical, but above this, it's an RC, I'm sure that RedHat/Oracle/IBM etc. are all over it like a rash, especially those in the virtualisation market.
>>Remember, Linux is a toy - an impressive toy, to be fair - but still a toy, so it's unfair to expect the same of it as you would professional systems.
Half the internet and most of the banks.
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Wednesday 24th December 2014 15:26 GMT PNGuinn
Re: Unknown source of kernel lock-ups?
No, that is NOT the point. This is a kernel released with a KNOWN IDENTIFIED BUG. If you do something affected by it USE ANOTHER. That's a decision for the user - include distro here. Most distros have a shrewd idea of their userbase.
The difference here is that if you don't like it or have problems you can use another kernel. Or distro. Just try stripping out the current kernel from, say win 8.x and shoehorning in the kernel from say win 7.y If you were able to do it even, I suspect MS would scream EULA at you, either via a nastygram or the system phoning home and killing itself.
I'm gusseing here - I dumped a certain commercial closed source os because of the unstable buggy sluggy (there - invented a new word just for you) piece of shite it was.
Clue:
Commercial closed system: Yeah, we know its full of bugs and some of 'em are nasty. WE NEED THE PORK. We'll release it anyway, make sure they have to buy it. If anyone finds a bug we may patch it if we know how or can be bothered. Or we'll call it a feature. or deny it and tell you (in the nicest possible way) to get stuffed.
Open Source: There are a lot of improvements here a lot of people need. There is an obscure bug we can't find that does not seem to affect a lot of people. We'll release now, making it clear what the problem is, people have a choice whether to use this or not. We'll keep looking. With it and the source out there the chances are the cause problem will come to light far more quickly as more people use it.
Being FREE has nothing to do with being buggy. Linus and the kernal team ain't perfect. Shock horror - they're probably not even the brightest people on the planet. They ARE bright enough to know that there are others out there who can read the code and contribute. That's why its OPEN.
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Monday 8th December 2014 13:10 GMT h4rm0ny
Re: Unknown source of kernel lock-ups?
>>"Er, its being given away for free?"
Er, that's a terrible response. When someone points out a bug in Linux we do not respond "Well it's free, what do you expect"? GNU/Linux powers half the Internet. Bad attitude is bad. Linux is not worse quality because it happens to be free nor should we expect it to be.
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Monday 8th December 2014 16:22 GMT Anonymous Bullard
Re: Unknown source of kernel lock-ups?
When a buggy linux kernel is released, that's ok.
When Windows issues an update for something, the rabid mob screams about MS selling defective products? What's the difference?
I said all "complex software", that includes Windows, too. If you think all software doesn't get released until all known bugs are gone then you (and your fellow cry babies on here) are greatly mistaken. 2 decades of Windows development has taught me that one.
The difference, you ask? The chances are, 3.18+ wont get to most users until it's fixed, unless they require the features it provides.
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Monday 8th December 2014 17:59 GMT Snorlax
Re: Unknown source of kernel lock-ups?
" If you think all software doesn't get released until all known bugs are gone then you (and your fellow cry babies on here) are greatly mistaken."
Thanks for the newsflash professor.
The point I was making (and which appears to have gone over your head) is that linux fans will say "Meh. Bugs. No big deal" when referring to their beloved OS, yet slag off other OSes whenever they patch holes. Apparently some people think that's cool because their choice is "free" and thus exempt from criticism or comparison. Talk about double standards...
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Monday 8th December 2014 19:44 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Unknown source of kernel lock-ups?
As an outsider (Windows is my preferred OS, but I'm still a geek nonetheless), I think you're the one getting your knickers in a twist.
It's an obscure bug, that some time has been spent on it but enough is enough and just release the damn thing, with a warning. Take it or leave it.
If you do use xen then try to avoid it but I bet your VPS provider (or distro) handle this type of stuff for you. It's not forced upon anyone, or anything.
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Wednesday 10th December 2014 12:56 GMT sdalton
Re: Unknown source of kernel lock-ups?
With Windows, that is what the end-users get. With Linux, it has to go through the secondary stability concerns of the distro developers - who may well elect to use an older kernel. The difference being, no-one is shoving software with known stability concerns into the hands of millions of consumers - it's much more fragmented, like everything FOSS.
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Tuesday 23rd December 2014 08:28 GMT Wogster
Re: Unknown source of kernel lock-ups?
There are Windows bugs that have been there since Windows 3.1 even though the thing has been rewritten from the gound up 4 times. Production users don't use the latest kernels, they use mature kernels from months or even years ago. About the only Linux version using a 3.17 kernel at this point is Fedora 21, and they are at 3.17.6. Not sure we need a minor upgrade every few weeks. letting them simmer a little might make for a better kernel....
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Monday 8th December 2014 14:41 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Unknown source of kernel lock-ups?
Apparently the lock-up bug is already present in 3.17. How would it help to delay the release of 3.18 because of it?
In any case, most ordinary users will continue to use a much older kernel than either of those. I seem to be on 3.2.0, with the distributor's patches applied, obviously.
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Monday 8th December 2014 21:32 GMT thames
Re: Unknown source of kernel lock-ups?
It's being released to other developers, not to the end users. It's not going to show up in your PC unless you manually download the source directly from their repository, compile it, bypass your distro's software management system, and manually force an install yourself. My PC runs the current and updated Ubuntu LTS release (14.04) and it has kernel version 3.13. Kernel 3.18 is unlikely to show up in any current or future version of Ubuntu.
Every 'x' weeks the Linux kernel developers put out a release which is intended for other developers who are working on next-generation stuff. The distros (e.g. Red Hat, Suse, Ubuntu, Debian, etc.) pick a known good release kernel, and then put more work into it to polish it up for their customers. If a new kernel has unresolved problems at around the time a distro wants to put out a new version of their OS, then they simply stick with an older one. Customers on existing releases may be running kernels which are several years old, with security patches and updated drivers added by the distro.
The kernel developers are the R&D department, not the product release department. They just happen to do everything out in the open rather than keeping it secret. If you want to compare them to Microsoft or Apple you would have to hack into Microsoft's code repository, download the work-in-progress source for Windows 11 (or whatever they're going to call it), compile it yourself, hack the result so it replaces the Windows kernel in your copy of Windows 7, and then go on the internet and bitch if your result occasionally locks up.
El Reg is reporting this story because it's of interest to a small group of people who want to follow what's going on in the world if IT. It's not something that any of us outside of a small group of developers are ever going to have to deal with though. And let's face it, even a Xen bug is pretty unlikely to affect anyone other than a Xen developer since nobody else is going to run Xen on their desktop.
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Monday 8th December 2014 10:48 GMT PhilipN
Re: Linux future
I was thinking the same thing. I have to hand it to LT for riding the bronco for so many years and bringing it to such a level of usage and respect. I would not call all Linux developers prima donnas but some of them give the impression of being a rowdy bunch. That's an observation, fellas, not a criticism, and it may be a good thing as part of the bazaar, but every good CEO - especially those who are self-appointed - plans for his own succession.
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