back to article Mystery Russian satellite: orbital weapon? Sat gobbler? What?

A Russian spacecraft – conceivably some kind of satellite-nobbling or -gobbling orbital weapons platform – is circling Earth, and Russia isn't saying anything about it. Nobody seems to know what it’s doing up there, nor what it's capable of doing. Kosmos 2499, Object 2014-28E or NORAD 39765, whatever you call it, this strange …

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  1. Billa Bong
    Alert

    Panic!

    "Naturally, the tendency is for everyone to start panicking about the Cold War and assuming that the craft is some sort of war satellite or an anti-satellite weapon that’s going to start shooting all of the other sats out of the sky."

    I'm interested - is this the first time that a satalite has gone up without anyone knowing what it's for (or rather not being told what it's for, because let's face it, who really knows what hidden functions relatively benign "communications" satalites have)? Or is just just because it's Russian?

    I must admit though, I saw the title and thought "Goldeneye"...

    Extra wide tinfoil at the ready, captain!

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Panic!

      Or is just just because it's Russian?

      No doubt we and the US have chucked up loads of satellites we don't tell anyone about.

      1. John Sanders
        Boffin

        Re: Panic!

        Yes it is because the aficionados will not notice loads of unidentified objects out there.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Panic!

        No doubt we and the US have chucked up loads of satellites we don't tell anyone about.

        Sure, but we and the US aren't busy invading the Ukraine and then potentially further countries.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Panic!

          "but we and the US aren't busy invading the Ukraine and then potentially further countries."

          Yeah, we just limited ourselves to invading Iraq and Afghanistan. And bombing the crap out of Libya, bits of Pakistan, Syria, etc, etc....

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Panic!

      "or an anti-satellite weapon that’s going to start shooting all of the other sats out of the sky"

      The High Velocity Potato Launcher?

    3. tony2heads

      Re: Panic!

      Tinfoil -ha!

      I'm going for an underground Faraday cage with diesel generator

      http://www.engineeringnews.co.za/print-version/meerkat-telescope-project-south-africa-2014-05-16

    4. This post has been deleted by its author

      1. Billa Bong

        Re: Panic!

        I was thinking this: http://jamesbond.wikia.com/wiki/GoldenEye_Satellite - though I'd forgotten about the Spectre capture rocket which in my mind is a blown up version of a Red Dwarf scutter.

        I've run out of tin foil now. The turkey will be a tad dry this year...

        1. Irony Deficient

          Re: Panic!

          Billa Bong, tin foil isn’t needed for moist turkey. The easiest way to ensure moist turkey is to give it a 24-hour salt water bath (salt to water proportions available upon request), then rinse it off, pat it dry, and cook; no tin foil required. The cooked meat is moist and not oversalted at all.

          1. Bear

            Re: Panic!

            Yes please!! What are the proportions?

            Although I am probably cooking pheasant or goose this year for Christmas, turkey can be for New Years.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Panic!

              Yes, do goose instead of turkey. Roast goose is the finest roasty bird known to humankind, and is the easiest to cook. 1 - turn oven to high heat. 2 - insert goose in to oven. 3 - drink wine and ignore for 2 hours. 4 - consume, taking particular care to enjoy crunchy delicious goose skin.

              1. dan1980

                Re: Panic!

                Turkey is a dirty, stupid bird. Avoid.

                1. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  Re: Panic!

                  "...a dirty, stupid bird. Avoid." reminds me of a girl I once knew, if only someone could have said those words to me at the time.

              2. Bear
                Happy

                Re: Panic!

                Not to forget that goose fat is very very tasty

              3. danbi

                Re: Panic!

                Is it humane to insert the goose alive in the oven?

                1. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  Re: Panic!

                  You need to pluck it first. I'll leave you to judge the cruelty factor of plucking a live goose - and the risks to yourself in doing so.

            2. Irony Deficient

              Re: Panic!

              Bear, start with a completely thawed and thoroughly rinsed fresh turkey. (Kosher and “self-basting” turkeys are pre-salted, so brining them will have no effect.) Dissolve one cup of table salt per US gallon of cold water (9.5 oz per Imperial gallon, 60 g/l); two US gallons (1⅔ Imperial gallons; 7.5 l) of brine typically suffice. (More salt is needed if kosher salt is used rather than table salt; the amount of kosher salt depends upon the manufacturer.) Submerge turkey in the briny deep; ensure that the brine remains below 41 °F (5 °C) for the duration. After a minimum of fourteen hours’ soak, preheat your oven to 400 °F (205 °C); line a large V-rack with heavy-duty tin foil* and use a paring knife to poke a couple of dozen holes in the foil. Put the V-rack in a large roasting pan. Remove the turkey from his bath, rinse him well, and pat him dry inside and out with paper towels. Melt four tablespoons of butter (three Australian tablespoons, 60 ml) and completely brush the turkey’s skin with the butter. Set the turkey on the V-rack with his breast down; roast for 45 minutes, then flip the bird and roast it for an additional 50 to 60 minutes (if the bird is 12 lb to 15 lb [5.5 kg to 6.8 kg]) or 75 minutes (if he’s 15 lb [6.8 kg] to 18 lb [8.2 kg]) with his breast up. Set the turkey onto a carving board and let it rest for 30 minutes before carving.

              If you have a turkey over 18 lb (8.2 kg), the cooking instructions vary; don’t follow the cooking instructions above.

              * — Yes, some foil is used, but not as much as would be needed to wrap the entire bird.

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Panic!

            > (salt to water proportions available upon request)

            Request hereby issued.

          3. Anonymous Coward
            Coat

            Re: Panic!

            A lot of (frozen) turkeys when being processed are cooled using a strong brine solution, does this make a difference - or are you on about fresh gobblers?

            1. Billa Bong

              Re: Panic!

              Who's have thought that an article about Russian space activities would end up in a topical discussion about the proper way to cook a bird (and which bird too). Thanks to all for a good chuckle and some fresh ideas, which I'll pass on to the head chef of this years glutton-fest.

              1. John 62

                Re: Panic!

                Turkey is not dirty. Stupid when alive, maybe, but roast it is delicious. And a cheap alternative to chicken for stir fries.

                When cooking goose, though, don't forget to put it in a very deep roasting pan, or put it on the wire rack, with a very deep roasting pan below it. My mum cooked our own geese one year and vowed never again because of the flood of goose fat that came out of the oven.

                1. Irony Deficient

                  Re: Panic!

                  John 62, rendered goose fat is something to be valued. Pour it into jars and keep them in your fridge; it can be used as a spread for toast or for cooking (potatoes roasted in a thin layer of rendered goose fat are particularly good).

            2. Irony Deficient

              Re: Panic!

              Lostyearsago, yes, it makes a difference; brining a pre-brined bird will not improve the final result. I’m referring only to fresh turkeys.

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: Panic!

                Fuck me, that's a lot of work for an animal that doesn't taste very good.

                1. Irony Deficient

                  Re: Panic!

                  Flatpackhamster, if you don’t like the taste of turkey, then don’t eat it. I like the taste of properly prepared turkey, so I do eat it (and cook it). Different horses for different courses, and all that.

                  1. Anonymous Coward
                    Anonymous Coward

                    Re: Panic!

                    It's not that I don't like turkey, it's just that it's really not a very good tasting animal compared to the alternatives, particularly when you have to put that amount of work in. Compare it to goose which requires no work, no buggering around with tinfoil, just bung it in the oven and start drinking.

                    1. Irony Deficient

                      Re: Panic!

                      Flatpackhamster, again, if you don’t find the taste of turkey to be worth the effort of its preparation, then don’t prepare it; sit back and enjoy your beverage while your goose cooks. I like the taste of properly prepared turkey as much as I like the taste of goose, so I’m willing to make the effort. (Where I live, the cost of goose per unit of mass is considerably higher than the equivalent amount of fresh turkey, so that influences my choice of bird; I usually select a goose only once my jars of goose fat are emptied.)

    5. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Panic!

      Oh, I'm thinking more along the lines of "Space Cowboys" except it's THOR (guided rods from space) should the U.S. get too frisky in central and eastern Europe.

      1. DropBear
        Joke

        Re: Panic!

        I think it's quite obvious - the first satellite was just them putting the giga-laser in orbit.

        ...This one is hauling up the shark.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Alert

          Re: Panic!

          What's the Russian for "Scoop"?

          (If you know anyone in Piedmont, New Mexico, you might tell them to get out of town for awhile.)

          1. Bear

            Re: Panic!

            Сенсационная новость (sensatsionnaya novost') is the usual translation. But the title of the Evelyn Waugh novel in Russian is Сенсация (Sensatsiya), so I would go with that.

  2. TheWeddingPhotographer

    Ask them

    Ask them, the answer will strike at least one possibility off the list.

    Of course they may need to keep a track on thier fighter planes they keep flying about with no notice to ATC or similar

  3. Vladimir Plouzhnikov

    Expert opinion

    "It could have a number of functions, some civilian and some military."

    No. Shit.

    1. TheWeddingPhotographer

      Re: Expert opinion

      Artistic.. (obviously)

    2. xperroni
      Facepalm

      Re: Expert opinion

      No. Shit.

      My thoughts exactly. I wonder how many years of Bullshit Studies do you need to land an "expert consultant" job at one of those think (such as it is) tanks?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Expert opinion

        -- "I wonder how many years of Bullshit Studies do you need to land an "expert consultant" job at one of those think (such as it is) tanks?"

        Does that make it a tanking tank?

    3. John Sanders
      Pint

      Re: Expert opinion

      And the beer award goes to.... Vladimir Plouzhnikov!!!

      (He owes me a new screen and keyboard though)

    4. dan1980

      Re: Expert opinion

      @Vladimir

      It is possible that that was intended to say that one option is it being a single-purpose device and another is that it is a multi-purpose device, having both military and civilian uses.

    5. Mark 85

      Re: Expert opinion

      It could be that it has no functions except to scare the hell out of everyone.

  4. Brenda McViking
    Alien

    It's blatantly Putin

    ...trying to pull a fast one on LOHAN.

    He's trying to cheat by putting a playmonaut into orbit using a big rocket rather than a baloon.

    Splitter.

    1. Bleu

      Re: It's blatantly Putin

      Baloon? Do you mean balun?

  5. Grikath

    or...

    It is a simple maneuverable box that the russians *know* will be tracked , just for the purpose of saying: "Look buddies, you're not the only ones able to put stuff in orbit and move it around" .

    Especially when with modern tech it is entirely possible, although expensive, to build something that will be damned hard to track. The russians are not averse to a bit of grandstanding where they feel it's needed, after all.

    1. Ogi

      Re: or...

      Or perhaps, its purpose is to distract the world with a shiny, randomly moving object, while the real military satellite goes off somewhere else quietly?

      Something that people have considered is the case for the USA's "secret" spaceplane as well. Real secrets are not so easily made public, discovered and tracked.

      1. Pete 2 Silver badge

        Re: or...

        > Real secrets are not so easily made public, discovered and tracked.

        Quite so. Given the "stealth" capabilities of military aircraft, it would seem to be a small matter to add a coat of the magic paint to anything you really didn't want space-tracking radar to pick up. Provide a way to position the solar panels so that they never reflect sunlight earthwards and use a very wide channel for your spread-spectrum comms and it should be invisible to earthly detection.

        So we can assume that anything with is easily tracked, like the X-37, is probably a decoy or not very important.

        1. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge

          Re: or...

          Stealth paint isn't magic. It's the shape that makes stealth planes hard for radar to detect. Not having any large flat surfaces for the radar to give a simple return off, but to be all angular, so it reflects off in different directions. That's going to make solar panels particularly problematic, as they have to be folded for launching, and then unfold into exactly the large, flat surfaces you're trying to avoid. I guess that's where you consider using a nice RTG power source instead. I'm sure the Russians have got the odd spare bit of plutonium lying about they could use.

          Another problem is moving around. If you fire your thrusters, you're easier to spot. Although I guess that depends on whether you're expecting to move far or not.

          1. Psyx

            Re: or...

            "It's the shape that makes stealth planes hard for radar to detect. Not having any large flat surfaces for the radar to give a simple return off, but to be all angular, so it reflects off in different directions. That's going to make solar panels particularly problematic,"

            So hang a large, radar absorbing 'balloon' underneath the bird which deflects energy upwards and away, instead of reflecting. A bit like this handy patent suggests:

            http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?CC=US&NR=5345238&KC=&FT=E&locale=en_EP

            "Provide a way to position the solar panels so that they never reflect sunlight earthwards and use a very wide channel for your spread-spectrum comms and it should be invisible to earthly detection."

            Low orbit is not very far away, so visual making is as important as RADAR. Anyone with a decent telescope can get some fairly good pictures of spy sats. Some of them are the size of a bus. Photos of some here:

            http://www.spacesafetymagazine.com/space-debris/astrophotography/view-keyhole-satellite/

            "So we can assume that anything with is easily tracked like the X-37, is probably a decoy or not very important."

            They're not far away and not hard to track. You'd be making an incorrect assumption.

            Are all these decoys?

            http://www.n2yo.com/satellites/?c=30

            X-37 is relatively easily tracked when you have LOS and know where to look. Except it side-steps this issue by being very maneuverable, so you don't know where or when it's going to make an over-pass, making it much harder to counter than something in a typical orbit.

            1. Bernard M. Orwell
              Alien

              Re: or...

              Interesting thing about the X-37; it's wings are oversized compared to fuselage dimensions. Now, why would you need bigger wings on something that only needs them on re-entry? Why, so that it can carry a bigger payload....

              ....a bigger payload BACK from space. It doesn't need wings during launch at all.

              Now, we don't know exactly how big the cargo bay of the X37 is, but it has the capability to open and close just like its big, manned siblings.

              It would be a crying shame if a non-existent spy satellite was grabbed and brought back for analysis at a base that doesn't exist by a militarised space shuttle that doesn't exist, wouldn't it?

              1. MyffyW Silver badge

                Re: or...

                @Bernard_M._Orwell have an up vote from me, that's the perfect blend of conspiracy and reason.

              2. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

                Re: or...

                Nobody tries to retrieve, or even approach, enemy military satelites.

                A block of C4, some ball-bearings and a proximity fuse and the other side loses a $$Bn space plane.

                That's why the air force space shuttle never happened

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