back to article Police in U-turn as 'shop a gun-owner' hotline is scrapped

A Crimestoppers hotline set up specifically to target legal gun owners has been shut down following a campaign by the Countryside Alliance. The hotline was set up after the Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO), the trade union for top cops in Blighty, announced a raft of measures targeting the licensed firearms …

  1. DavCrav

    "Flyer: "If you are unfortunate enough to lose your gun, or have it stolen, then... you may be prosecuted"."

    That's a very disingenuous selective quotation there. A more representative quotation would be

    Flyer: "If you are unfortunate enough to lose your gun, or have it stolen, then [if it is deemed you were negligent in letting a firearm get out into the wild] you may be prosecuted".

    That's a rather different statement, and an entirely reasonable one. If your house gets burgled and it gets stolen from a locked cabinet, no prosecution; if you leave it lying on the back seat of your car and it gets stolen, prosecution. It's called criminal negligence.

    1. DropBear

      There is this little thing where information is intended to be conveyed not so much by the truth content of the sentences spoken / written, but rather by what is being said when, and how (yes I know this is a troublesome concept for a lot of men). While I'd say nobody argues that negligent handling of firearms is a good idea, that's not what this pamphlet is about - instead, it's the equivalent of shouting "SIT!" to your dog, or spelling out "the only reason you folks get to play with your guns is because we allow you to - for now", practically expressed almost ad literam in the pamphlet itself (if it's genuine of course). Making thinly veiled threats is hardly a way to make friends, unless your point has never been to get friendly in the first place...

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Big Brother

        What are these "intemperate habits" that are to be watched for in other shooters? Public arse scratching? Rude language?

        Criticism of the government...?

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          "If you are unfortunate enough to lose your gun, or have it stolen, then [if it is deemed you were negligent in letting a firearm get out into the wild] you may be prosecuted".

          Well, you don't have to rephrase it, it states clearly in the very next sentence that if you "contributed to the loss or theft, you may be prosecuted". That's pretty straight forward and expected.

          What isn't expected is to REPORT! someone who is having an emotional hard time at some point in their life, only because they have a gun. Of course this could be a tax generator, for who knows if you'll have to pay for state "sanctioned" therapy sessions just to get your gun back!

          Anyways, can you report cops? :-)

          1. Trigonoceps occipitalis

            Because there is a perceived threat (weather that is a reasonable assumption or not) to gun ownership by removal of a firearms license if mere suspicions are reported, it is less likely that gun owners will report. If it was made clear by both words and deeds that a report to the police will not result in an over reaction perhaps the police will get better cooperation.

    2. Soap Distant

      @DavCrav

      The truly and vastly overwhelming majority of those with a SGC and guns in their possession are acutely aware of their legal obligations regarding the handling and storage of guns. I can speak as one who is aware that I might well be considered partly responsible for the loss or theft of my guns if I fail to adhere to the laws regarding this. And face prosecution.

      Those that I have shot with over the past 3 decades are self-policing regarding safety and security, I have yet to meet someone who would relax any of the golden rules governing the use of firearms or shotguns. For example, if anyone is seen to handle a gun incorrectly at a shoot, they will have instruction from strangers to put them straight, whether they wanted advice or not!

      I think the original thrust of the article is that the shooting community were to be scrutinized further than they already are and that this was unfair, and that this scrutiny was considered unnecessary.

      I'm inclined to agree.

      As for discerning if someone is depressed or turning into a pisshead (intemperate), again, I firmly believe that the community would largely police itself. But in any case, would the police or any other body or group be better placed to tell if someone was going to blow a gasket and become dangerous? I wouldn't place a bet.

      There's moral high ground to be had in the steering groups and committee rooms where firearms are concerned - doesn't mean any sense comes out of 'em.

      SD

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    This seems a bit more in line with the civilised world

    That said, I'm sure a prenominal, a double-barrelled name, and a couple postnominals bestowed upon you by none other than the Queen, may carry at least a little weight. Just from the name, that chap sounds like someone you would like to meet one day. :-)

    1. Trigonoceps occipitalis

      Re: This seems a bit more in line with the civilised world

      You don't get the concept of the less deferential society do you?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: This seems a bit more in line with the civilised world

        > You don't get the concept of the less deferential society do you?

        I believe I do, and I'm all for it, but purely from a personal point of view, I think there is something anachronistically magnificent (or magnificently anachronistic) about this chap's name and I find that interesting. :-)

  3. Richard Parkin

    Right not privilege

    It is my understanding that owning a shotgun is a right which the police have the power to negate on reasonable grounds. Has that been changed?

    1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      Re: Right not privilege

      A few people with privilege had a word with their chief supers and suggested they wouldn't be invited to diner at the big house if the unwashed plod were allowed to just march in.

      They had a word down at the rolled-up-trouser with the ACPO and the rules were changed

      Isn't it nice to live in a representative democracy

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Right not privilege

      "It is my understanding that owning a shotgun is a right which the police have the power to negate on reasonable grounds. Has that been changed?"

      It never existed. If the agents of government can take away a 'right' at their discretion (citing 'reasonable' grounds of course), then there is no such right, as is baldly stated in that leaflet.

      The British government has arrogated all personal self-defense rights to themselves. You don't need to protect against anything; your local smiling gendarme will perform that service for you, sort of.

      In the U.S. there is a saying: "When seconds count, the police are only minutes away..."

      It almost seems like the police are really there to keep the populace contained and controlled. Naturally the govt. likes knowing that the populace is 99% disarmed (except for criminals and the well-connected). No real risk that they might have to face anything other than noise, kinda like the bleating of sheep.

    3. The Vociferous Time Waster
      Mushroom

      Re: Right not privilege

      An SGC is something you can get unless the police can give a reason why you can't have it. A FAC is something you can get if you have good reason to have it for a specific purpose.

      Mine's the one with the black powder license in the pocket unless my hands get swabbed at airports.

  4. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
    Holmes

    That Danger Mouse feeling

    It sounds like the humble boomstick has been upgraded to the domain of "weapons of mass destruction" now?

  5. Scroticus Canis

    Don't dare clean or maintain your firearm!!!!!

    First thing I did when getting back from a shoot was clean and oil my toys and check everything was undamaged and functioned properly. Then they got locked in the safe.* Maybe the plod never heard about maintenance (or just couldn't spell it).

    (* apart from the carry piece and the back-up when considered prudent)

    1. Thorne

      Re: Don't dare clean or maintain your firearm!!!!!

      "(* apart from the carry piece and the back-up when considered prudent)"

      The unregistered backup for when you accidently shoot some black kid and need a plant?

  6. The Vociferous Time Waster

    I want to be very clear that the vast majority of firearms owners in the UK are law‐abiding and safety‐conscious.

    Given that fairly stringent police checks are carried out for both a FAC and a SGC you can be fairly certain of this.

  7. Mike Flex

    Tough.

    From the article:

    "Presumably the anxiety caused by all these "you vill report zer koncernz to us or else!" orders from the police should now be reported for their consideration?"

    If someone can't cope with the responsibility of looking after firearms properly then they shouldn't keep firearms.

    1. Trigonoceps occipitalis

      Re: Tough.

      See comment above.

  8. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

    acknowledging they made a mistake?

    " It's good to see the police acknowledging they made a mistake here and withdrawing the hotline."

    Really?

    Chief Constable Andy Marsh acknowledges.

    "I am conscious that what we are doing may have been misunderstood," he writes.

    That doesn't sound like "acknowledging they made a mistake". It sounds more like they are blaming the shooters for not understanding the wonderful fluffy intentions of the Police.

    Alternatively, this was just standard practice of leaking or announcing a policy no one likes with multiple "bad" bits so they can back-pedal on a part of it and so get the plebs to accept the original plan, ie the "mostly" intelligence lead spot checks. (was't that just "intelligence led" in the earlier draft? Now it's "mostly"?)

    1. Pedigree-Pete

      ACPO union for the plod,,, I think not.

      ACPO as you correctly pointed out is the Association of Chief Police Officers.

      The Police Federation of England & Wales is the "plods" union.

      https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCcQFjAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.policeconstables.org%2Fabout-us%2Fabout-constables%2Fhistory%2F&ei=qepgVMT8J8XIsATb5IJ4&usg=AFQjCNHMfMp40xengK9FRr1RsfSEDguczw&bvm=bv.79189006,d.d2s

      Bit calling the CBI a club subscribed to by Arthur Scargill. !!

  9. Kepler
    Black Helicopters

    Natural rights demoted to mere "privileges"?

    "It is a privilege to own a firearm - not a right." Natural rights enjoyed subject to the whim of the police. Victims of theft punished as wrongdoers (unless they are lucky enough to satisfy the police), almost as though they were accomplices. Citizens admonished to narc on their fellow law-abiding citizens, à la East Germany.

    I weep for my brethren and sistren across the Pond. Blackstone must be rolling in his grave.

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