back to article Blighty goes retro with 12-sided pound coin

In agreeable news for those readers who can remember when it was all trees round here and you could get an enormous paper bagful of gobstoppers for thruppence, The Royal Mint has unveiled a decidedly retro 12-sided design for Blighty's £1 coin. The proposed 12-sided pound coin. Pic: The Royal Mint The mint reckons that a …

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  1. WraithCadmus
    WTF?

    12-sided...

    So I was told there was a reason why the 20p and 50p had an odd number of sides, something to do with mechanical detection.

    Was that bollocks or when you get to 12 sides is it close enough to a circle that it's not worth worrying?

    1. Chris McFaul

      Re: 12-sided...

      The 20p and 50p have constant diameter no matter where you measure them

      this new £1 will be the first coin in a very long time not to have a constant diameter

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curve_of_constant_width

      1. earl grey
        Trollface

        Re: 12-sided...

        "The 20p and 50p have constant diameter no matter where you measure them"

        You mean they're spherical?

    2. Pete 2 Silver badge

      A question of balance

      > the 20p and 50p had an odd number of sides

      Yes, but you can't have fun and games seeing how many you can stack, on edge.

      1. Chris McFaul

        Re: A question of balance

        you can.. its just more difficult

        http://i.imgur.com/EBFUcUv.jpg

        1. VinceH

          Re: A question of balance

          They appear to have twelve sides - so that's a pretty neat trick, balancing a number of seven sided coins on edge so that they somehow gain an extra five sides.

          1. Jonathan Richards 1

            Balancing act

            As far as I can make out, those are Australian coins, not UK 50p ones. Cripe's, he's hung them from an upside-down table!!

          2. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

            Re: A question of balance

            balancing a number of seven sided coins on edge so that they somehow gain an extra five sides."

            That's because it's a three dimensional visualistion of the 4 dimensional hyper-heptagon.

    3. David Paul Morgan

      Re: 12-sided...

      yes. an equilateral curved heptagon has a constant diameter.

      therefore, the new coin should have had 11 sides, curved...

  2. James 51

    Why not bury a RFID tag in them? I know this would put the price up by a penny or two but wouldn't that be a difficult one to duplicate/fake, make the fakes easier to spot using a reader and it might come in handy when you want to know how much you've got sutffed down the back of your piggy bank/sofa.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Anything you can make...

      ... I can fake better.

      Remember when silvery holograms were a sign of authenticity?

    2. Phil O'Sophical Silver badge

      Why not bury a RFID tag in them?

      Because they're made of metal?

      1. James 51

        Couldn't you use the coin itself an antenna?

    3. Frankee Llonnygog
      Coat

      Brilliant idea

      Then you could make contactless payments with coins

      1. James 51
        Pint

        Re: Brilliant idea

        Didn't anticpate that application. Here you go (see icon).

      2. Captain Scarlet Silver badge
        Alert

        Re: Brilliant idea

        "Then you could make contactless payments with coins"

        My head wants to explode thinking about this.

        1. Frankee Llonnygog

          Re: My head wants to explode thinking about this.

          If that doesn't do it - wait till they give you your change!

    4. TRT Silver badge

      Hard currency has gone the way of the dodecagon.

      1. Esskay
        Coat

        I read that as "Dogecagon". much sides.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        "Hard currency has gone the way of the dodecagon."

        No. No it hasn't. To clarify its 13/03/2014. In this year hard currency is not dead.

        I suspect this will be the case in years to come.

      3. This post has been deleted by its author

    5. Scott Wheeler

      That sort of thing is what I'm worried about with this "authentication". While it's unlikely that they use RFID because the coins are metal, I'm concerned that they may give coins individual identification, which will make cash transactions trackable.

      1. Old Handle

        Bank notes already have serial numbers. (Or don't they in the UK?)

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Exactly. Please el-reg, follow up on the 'technology' angle and find out what they mean.

        Anon because of reasons.

  3. OliverJ

    ... and a fitting tribute this is.

    The Chancellor of the Exchequer, George Osbourne, enthused: "...paying tribute to the past in the 12-sided design of the iconic threepenny bit." before continuing with the astute observation that this is also a quite fitting tribute considering that the new £1 coin of 2014 will also have roughly the same purchasing power as the iconic threepenny bit of 1953 had in its day.

    1. Uffish

      Re: ... and a fitting tribute this is.

      Back in 1953 a skilled worker would get about £20 per week; that's 1600 threepenny bits.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Stop

        Re: ... and a fitting tribute this is.

        Do you have a reference for that? It sounds like a hell of a lot to me. The ONS suggests an average wage of £9.30 but neglects to mention if that is a mean or median average.

        http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/about-ons/business-transparency/freedom-of-information/what-can-i-request/previous-foi-requests/labour-market/average-gross-weekly-earnings-in-1953/index.html?format=print

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: ... and a fitting tribute this is. @moultoneer

          9.30 times 52 weeks a year = 483.60 per year. That's specifically for manual workers, so the population average is likely to be somewhat higher, although less than double surely.

          Anyway, 9.30 works out at 744 thruppeny bits a week. If, as posted by someone else, a modern pound is equivelent to about 8d in 1953 money, that means the 'average manual wage' in 1953 was equivalent to about 14,500 pounds a year in today's money.

          So that's how far living standards have risen in over half a century. Isn't progress nice?

      2. John 110
        Stop

        Re: ... and a fitting tribute this is.

        @Uffish

        Mr Average took home £9.75 a week in 1953. I got less than £20 a week at my first job in 1971.

    2. Chris Miller
      Thumb Up

      Re: ... and a fitting tribute this is.

      A huge exaggeration. Today's £1 has the equivalent (RPI) purchasing power of 9 old pence in 1953.

      1. Uffish

        The pound in your pocket

        The FT has a table of average UK annual wages. In 1953 it was £625.80.

        1. This Side Up

          Re: The pound in your pocket

          I think I was getting 6d a week pocket money.

      2. This post has been deleted by its author

    3. big_D Silver badge

      Re: ... and a fitting tribute this is.

      Buying power... That was my first thought, when I read the article.

      My other thought was, introduce the Euro, it is already a 2 metal coin, you'd get a good deal on them as well, 1.2 Euros for every pount - if it goes like the rest of Europe, the shops would then also be able to double the price of all goods over night.

      1. This Side Up

        Re: ... and a fitting tribute this is.

        "the shops would then also be able to double the price of all goods over night."

        No, it could be beneficial on balance because shops like to round prices up to the next multiple of £10 and then take 1p off to make silly shoppers think it's cheaper. €9.99 is less than £9.99.

        1. Imsimil Berati-Lahn

          Re: ... and a fitting tribute this is.

          "€9.99 is less than £9.99."...

          ...at time of posting.

        2. Colin Millar
          Holmes

          Re: ... x.99 rounding

          This was originally introduced as an anti theft procedure when electronic tills were introduced- it gave the customer a reason to hang around and see the sale registered cos they were waiting for their change.

          1. strum

            Re: ... x.99 rounding

            It's a lot earlier than electronics. 19/11d was a common price for quid(ish) goods, way back in my youth.

            Yes, part of it was persuading the punter he was saving money, but part of it was ensuring the salesperson opened the till.

          2. Robert Baker
            WTF?

            Re: ... x.99 rounding

            "This was originally introduced as an anti theft procedure when electronic tills were introduced- it gave the customer a reason to hang around and see the sale registered cos they were waiting for their change."

            I'm sure there were prices such as £2 19/11d (one old penny short of an exact £3) long before there were electronic tills.

        3. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: ... and a fitting tribute this is.

          There wasn't a single currency which adopted the Euro where shops cut their prices. Why would it happen here?

    4. Gannettt

      Re: ... and a fitting tribute this is.

      According to the Bank of England Inflation Calculator (http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/education/Pages/inflation/calculator/flash/default.aspx) £1 in 1953 has the buying power of £23.64 in 2012, or, if you prefer, £1 in 2012 had a value of 4p (or about 8d) in 1953.

    5. Jan 0 Silver badge
      Pint

      Re: ... and a fitting tribute this is.

      Back in the '50s, 3d was the price of a Mars bar. Thanks to "Mr. Rising Price" Mars bars got proportionally smaller as the years passed. Sometime around 1960, Mars finally restored the size, but upped the price to 4d. Using the Mars bar standard suggests that the present day pound is a bit more valuable than 3d in 1953. (A normal (58 g) Mars bar is now about 60p.)

      Foreign readers please note that there are no nuts in a Limey Mars Bar, d=denarius, the standard abbreviation for the old penny that was 1/240th of a pound:) and 3d was, of course, pronounced "thruppence".

      Beer: A nice pint of Massey's, with a proper head, to toast those pre-Grotney years when you could buy a round with a ten bob note and still have change for fish and chips.

  4. Goldmember

    3 per cent?

    That sounds like a lot. Who's got the time or the patience to manufacture all those fake pound coins? You can buy bugger all with a quid anyway. The crooks should invest their time in Bitcoin exchange hacking or something instead.

    1. RISC OS

      Re: 3 per cent?

      Could buy someone a hell of a lot of tat from pound shops... they are springup all over the place... ;)

    2. Flocke Kroes Silver badge

      You can get the fakes at clubs

      The fakes are roughly the right size, colour and weight but would not pass casual inspection by someone sober in daylight. I assume the new design will be faked just as badly and given in change at clubs to those too drunk or high to spot the difference.

      1. Steve Todd

        Re: You can get the fakes at clubs

        Some of the fakes are pretty good. You'd need to look at things like the alignment of the front and rear designs, or the quality of the embossed motto on the rim to spot them. The BBC made a program covering the range of quality involved.

        1. Goldmember

          Re: You can get the fakes at clubs

          "Some of the fakes are pretty good"

          Indeed they are. I've only had a handful over the years which I've suspected to be forgeries, and I suspect have had more I didn't even realize were fakes. Although, apparently, the quality is getting worse. There's an article on the BBC today on how to spot a forgery.

          That's my point, though. Surely there's a high cost to manufacturing a decent forgery? And how do you spend them in bulk? I imagine you could get away with handing over 3 or 4 at a time in the pub (or mixing them with real ones, if they were good enough), but walking into John Lewis with a big bag of 800 shiny coins to buy a new TV would look a little suspect.

          1. Werner McGoole

            Re: You can get the fakes at clubs

            I think it doesn't really help that they change the design on coins and banknotes so often. There are so many designs in circulation now that I don't necessarily recognise them all and I'm not that surprised when I see a new one. If I got given a pound coin with a picture of Mickey Mouse on one side, I'd probably assume it's some stupid attempt to commemorate Walt Disney or something.

            So now I suspect the fraudsters could start minting 13-sided pound coins and still get away with it. People would just assume it's a new official design.

    3. plrndl
      Pint

      Re: 3 per cent?

      According to Wikipedia, a 2011 BBC test of 5000 pound coins found 3.5% to be counterfeit. With 1½ billion in circulation, that will buy several pints even at 2014 prices. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pound_coin)

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: 3 per cent?

      " 3 per cent? That sounds like a lot."

      Depends where you are - I've seen quite a few poor quality forgeries, and quite a few that I couldn't tell weren't but looked "different" to all the other pound coins in my pocket. Luckily the criteria for judging authenticity in the shop is basically size and weight, so it's an open door for forgers.

      Having said that, I'm most disappointed with the pound coin forgers - there's so many different designs on pound coins there's a fantastic opportunity to get their own design into circulation, with a latin edge logo something like "less dishonest than bankers".

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