I want a Technicolor dreamcoat for X-mas !
Seriously - They should make a new batch of that elixir and force feed it it to all the kalachnikoff/Uzi waving haters in the area.... Maybe that would solve the middle east crisis once and for all!
Vintage wine laid down in 1600 BC was 'psychotropic'
The people of ancient Canaan were far more bibulous than anyone has previously suspected. Boffins have dug up 3,700-year-old wine jugs from an ancient cellar in a large Canaanite city called Tel Kabri, which is not far from the vineyards of modern Israel. The wine was flavoured with honey, mint, cinnamon bark, juniper berries …
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Friday 22nd November 2013 18:41 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: I want a Technicolor dreamcoat for X-mas !
Sadly because drinking wine is considered by those AK-47 wielding mop heads to be really evil that is on a par with Jewish Moneylenders plying their trade on the steps of the Mosque your idea is so much wishful thinking.
Nice try though.
One can dream.
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Saturday 23rd November 2013 10:34 GMT Destroy All Monsters
Re: I want a Technicolor dreamcoat for X-mas !
> Jewish Moneylenders plying their trade on the steps of the Mosque
Mixing up your memes here?
Well, Christian economic scholars (apparently calling from the same bizarro alternate universe of crooked logic as does N.Y.T. Krugman) have condemned and fulminated against moneylending for about a couple of thousand years, which is why this particular profession was reserved to that particular class of people for a long time. Also didn't Jesus rageclean the temple back at around 0 A.D.?
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Saturday 23rd November 2013 11:06 GMT Anonymous Coward
@anon Re: I want a Technicolor dreamcoat for X-mas !
> "The people of ancient Canaan" or Palestinians as they are better known...
Only someone with absolutely no knowledge of history would make that sort of statement. The area wasn't called Palestine until it was sacked and absorbed by the Romans, and it was named for the Philistines, a non-semitic culture that had all but disappeared by that point in history. Modern palestinians are arabs who bear no relation to that earlier culture whatsoever.
It was a common practice of empires to split conquered territories into pieces and rename them to break the cultural bonds of the people they had conquered, in order to discourage uprisings.
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Monday 25th November 2013 05:57 GMT Wzrd1
Re: I want a Technicolor dreamcoat for X-mas !
"I think the Iranian solution is the only permanent one - The world's Glow-in-the-Dark glass car park..."
Two problems there.
First, Iran is a bit of a haul from Israel, let alone where the wine residue was found.
Second, civilized people do not advocate for genocide.
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Friday 22nd November 2013 17:34 GMT Graham Marsden
"The 200 year old booze, which was the oldest ever found"
Erm, excuse me, but during a dive in the Mediterranean, Jacques Cousteau and his crew found a *two thousand* year old amphora of wine that was intact. Thinking there would be others, they drank it (and found it tasted terrible!)
IIRC, however, they never found another one...
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Friday 22nd November 2013 17:50 GMT Efros
Re: "The 200 year old booze, which was the oldest ever found"
Cousteau was a dick who didn't observe animals but molested them. His brother's antics earned him a trial after WWII, it seems that Jacques beliefs may not have been that different fomr his.
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/20000-lies-under-the-sea-the-fishy-world-of-jacques-cousteau-1102346.html
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Friday 22nd November 2013 18:01 GMT Don Jefe
Re: "The 200 year old booze, which was the oldest ever found"
Most of the 'Great Explorers' were dicks to our minds. But they are directly responsible for creating the last few generations of scientists and explorers with a better sense of ethics and respect. The cultural superiority you seem to be espousing is an extremely recent development in Human civilization. Without those who had gone before we would not have room to improve.
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Friday 22nd November 2013 19:30 GMT Efros
Re: "The 200 year old booze, which was the oldest ever found"
Nope nothing to do with cultural superiority, the man was a dick. Even as a kid watching his programmes I twigged that what he was doing had nothing to do with observation of animals in their natural habitat but everything to do with playing to the cameras.
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Friday 22nd November 2013 21:50 GMT Don Jefe
Re: "The 200 year old booze, which was the oldest ever found"
See, you did it again...
Dick he may have been, but he and Gagnan are the reason SCUBA and underwater cinematography are a thing. They invented the demand regulator that's basically unchanged today as well as perfected the water proof camera housings that provided access to camera controls and the lighting methods that scientists use today to do their observations. He invented it, so I guess if he wanted to play it up that's OK.
I really suggest you expand your horizons beyond the propaganda site you link to. Most of the big names in any field are dicks, but you're a fool to ignore their accomplishments.
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Saturday 23rd November 2013 13:57 GMT M Gale
Re: "The 200 year old booze, which was the oldest ever found"
And Hitler made the trains run on time. Oh, and is responsible for the roads that many Germans enjoy the use of to this day. Also Volkswagen. He was still a momumental penis. Or should I say "a festering sore on the anus of humanity"?
Can I have a Godwin award now?
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Saturday 23rd November 2013 16:39 GMT Don Jefe
Re: "The 200 year old booze, which was the oldest ever found"
Mussolini made the trains run on time... Hitler is responsible for women's rights, jet engines, several forms of modern reinforced concrete and solidarity (of a sort) in Europe as well as organized genocide. But I fail to see what 20th century fascists have to do with Jaques Cousteau...
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Saturday 23rd November 2013 18:20 GMT M Gale
Re: "The 200 year old booze, which was the oldest ever found"
But I fail to see what 20th century fascists have to do with Jaques Cousteau...
Just pointing out that even the biggest cock-ends may have done some things that might be considered useful. It doesn't stop them from being cock-ends. Or genocidal maniacs.
In other news, Isaac Newton was also interested in the Occult, and Alchemy. Yes, the whole lead-into-gold thing. So crazy batshit insane in many ways, which doesn't detract from his quite useful (if superceded in more recent decades) theories on motion and gravity.
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Sunday 24th November 2013 12:46 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: “The 200 year old booze, which was the oldest ever found”
Well done everyone. I started by knowing not a lot about Cousteau. Now I know that maybe he's a dick for "playing to the camera". Very informative. Not.
That could apply to just about anyone who gets in front of a camera at any point in time. But somehow in Cousteau's case, it makes him comparable to Hitler and Mussolini. I guess he must have done something else you've not mentioned, like a minor act of genocide, maybe?
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Saturday 23rd November 2013 16:35 GMT Efros
Re: "The 200 year old booze, which was the oldest ever found"
The Independent a propaganda site?
At least you agreed he was a dick. I have no problem recognizing his accomplishments I also have no problem realizing that his "wildlife" exploits are indeed exploitative and little to do with the wildlife.
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Saturday 23rd November 2013 16:48 GMT Don Jefe
@ Efros
Yes. He was certainly a dick. I don't even like his writing style, he comes off as a dick in print, and that's a lot harder to do than you'd think. I just chalk it up to being French :)
By cultural superiority I was intending to point out that until very recently the world at large had a very different view on what being 'great' or 'legendary' meant. Within the last 35-40 years or so we've gotten a lot 'nicer' and the people involved and their attitudes have become as important as their accomplishments. Used to be you could be as big of an ass as you wanted, it was even expected, as long as you met your goals.
I'm glad we're moving past that, but at the same time it is difficult for me to hold the expectations of society at any given time against the people of that period. Remember when Cousteau was working in SCUBA we still officially in government announcements called the Japanese 'Japs' and 'Nips' and had propaganda in the US and UK to 'know your yellow enemies and your yellow friends' and the Germans were Krauts. It was a very, very different planet then.
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Monday 25th November 2013 06:03 GMT Wzrd1
Re: @ Efros
"Yes. He was certainly a dick."
True enough, he *was* a showman. He brought interest into something that was, at the time, utterly unknown to the masses.
But then, I grew up while he was doing his schtick, watching each installment.
Before him, only industrial divers and the military really had any clue what was below the surface of the waves, let alone down deep.
I'll not even begin to go into what was on the Loony Tunes back then...
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Sunday 24th November 2013 20:56 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Propaganda Site? The Independent?
Hmmm, well if you are a Telegraph reader, then I suppose that both The Independent and The Guardian represent the evil undercurrents that are going to come out from under our beds and destroy society.
But anyway, you might have bothered to read the article, which fully accepts and lauds his actual accomplishments. Apart from which, he seems to have been a bit if a dick.
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Friday 22nd November 2013 22:45 GMT Don Jefe
I'm assuming you consider yourself to be an intelligent being who requires evidence in order to make decisions. I'm doubting your self assessment as it's perfectly clear that psychotropic drugs are not required for people to worship invisible entities they deem to be deities. You lose 10 Troll Points for observational failures and over eagerness. Show some restraint and thought in future attempts and your efforts will be far more valued.
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Saturday 23rd November 2013 22:42 GMT Anonymous Coward
> I'm assuming you consider yourself to be an intelligent being who requires evidence in order to make decisions.
It has been well documented that world religions are pretty self-sustaining once they get going.
They require only that their participants suspend logic and that they indoctrinate their children. The indoctrination helps with the logic suspension as it happens.
Someone must have kicked them off in the first place.
Either:
1) they emerge spontaneously by people "having a laugh" or
2) they naturally occur through superstition and grow from there, or
3) someone with influence (read money/power) was on drugs and persuaded people in their power that sky fairies exist with the threat of stabbing to death.
But 3) would never happen would it?
Oh wait, that's exactly what happened.
Certainly in England and many other places. Either be a Christian or die. Your choice.
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Sunday 24th November 2013 12:45 GMT Don Jefe
The engine of (most) religions self sustaining nature is my real only problem with organized religion. I don't like management through fear. I don't like it at all. You're either a believer or you are doomed for all eternity to be burned, frozen, trapped in a rock, etc...
All those those things, from a reward to the punishment(s), imply that a God has an ego. An all powerful entity that created everything is somehow so petty that if you don't join his fan club you'll be punished for all eternity? Or even punished at all. That makes absolutely no sense. It's like saying dogs can't open checking accounts because some birds are flightless.
It's also the same tactic shady politicians use, they toss some issue out there and if you don't support them, then you must be a terrorist, paedo, witch, Commie, etc... and are deserving of punishment. It's taking advantage of people and that's simply awful. I have real trouble believing that if there is a God that he's got the same mindset as a politician...
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Monday 25th November 2013 06:08 GMT Wzrd1
For the religions at the time that that wine was still fresh and fermenting, it was:
2) they naturally occur through superstition and grow from there, or
3) someone with influence (read money/power) was on drugs and persuaded people in their power that sky fairies exist with the threat of stabbing to death.
In that order, over many generations. Once some bright folks figured out how to make a racket out of #2, it quickly turned into #3.
Though, Europe turned that into a hard science, with fire, impalement, etc.
Though, other regions had other religions that did much the same thing.
What can I say, greedy assholes are very, very creative.
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Friday 22nd November 2013 18:32 GMT Ron Luther
Bring in Dogfish Head!
There is an American microbrewer who has already worked with molecular archaeologists to re-created several ancient brews, which they later sell. Like this one:
http://www.dogfish.com/brews-spirits/the-brews/occassional-rarities/chateau-jiahu.htm
I've tried several. Unusual, but interesting. Good stuff! And what the hell is science good for anyway if not for re-creating ancient beer?
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Friday 22nd November 2013 18:52 GMT MerryChristmas
Re: Bring in Dogfish Head!
i keep waiting for the day, if some secret lab has not done it anyway, when a scientists will put the THC gene in regular lawn grass. not only would you never have to pay anyone to cut your lawn but milk and cheese would maybe be found to have increased demand therefore helping the dairy industry!!!!!!!
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Saturday 23rd November 2013 10:04 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Carlsberg?
I think you have the wrong end of the stick; this was booze for the Hooray Henry's of the day.
Even today, sticking a bit of poo into something seems to be de rigor for the well heeled Hoorays, just go read the review on "Which" regarding Fortnam&Masons mince pies.
(Or look here for a brief news report on the tests http://www.bitterwallet.com/which-reveals-the-best-mince-pies/70022 )
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Friday 22nd November 2013 18:41 GMT Pete 2
Decant
> This wine's recipe was strictly followed in each and every jar
Surely the ancients were savvy enough to make their "special recipe" wine in a large batch and then store (or sell) it in more manageable portions. That's the simplest explanation for a consistent mix in each jar.
But I suppose when the researchers want to "big up" their discovery (basically, a load of empty pots), then any little helps.
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Friday 22nd November 2013 19:25 GMT Don Jefe
Re: Decant
Whether fancy drink for the upper class or swill for the proles, standardized booze production has been around a long, long, long time. The chief expense in modern booze production (other than marketing) is equipment/automation that simply isn't a concern when your labor force will literally, work for booze and bread. It requires no skill and everyone who can't participate in other labors can help. Children, women, infirm or battle damaged can all find work. It's simply silly to think that consistency is a modern invention when knowledge of the processes involved was ingrained in every child born.
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Sunday 24th November 2013 09:39 GMT david 12
Re: Decant
Dunnol. Have you ever bought a really large pot? Have you ever tried cooking a really large meal? There's a reason why big pots are so much more expensive to buy:: they are so much more expensive to make and transport. And the extra labour in cooking large batches is requires more strength, more organisation, and more care. And is matched by the risk that when it fails, it all fails.
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This topic is closed for new posts.
Biting the hand that feeds IT
