Girls, beer and C++: How to choose the right Comp-Sci degree for you

Re: I'm sure there were two girls on my degree course

There were (comparatively) lots on mine - i.e. maybe 10% of the total.

Given that I was a stereotypical "into computers" student (and more the bad stereotypes than the good) it benefited me as much as the icon suggests.

(Glasgow, Software Engineering, 2:2)

Re: proper "Computer Scientists" that can solve real problems

"And that is why you fail"

Science is not about solving real-world industrial problems. That's what engineering is for. That's why the demand is there for engineers in computing, not just scientists.

Yes, it's right to observe that courses that claim to be Computer Science but then teach mostly programming are not going to turn out great graduates as (a) they lied and (b) they're still not teaching engineering principles. At best they're a college course in a language that may well be on its way out. And yes, the Scientific staff may be resistant to teaching something they're not skilled in - but that's a sign to expand their remit, not barricade themselves in. Sadly though, this status quo will persist as long as the scientists control the departments and the industry still has an appetite for hiring mediocre programmers, giving them a pile of UML layouts to code, then kicking them out the instant they mention the word 'opportunities' to HR.

There are plenty of overlaps between science and engineering, but generally the focus is looking outward not inward. Science might teach the principles of the microchip, but (a) if you're going to work on hardware you should be on a different course, and (b) it barely touches on programming even if you get into assembly. And being able to demonstrate a language is 'Turing complete' doesn't remotely affect your programming of one as established as C++, as it's hardly your call anymore. Now where the theory of languages does help is in going from one to another, or for developing a scripting system of your own, but if you haven't knocked out code in at least three significantly different languages before you even get to Uni then what were you playing at?

Whereas engineering will take you more through breaking down problems, why you need a software lifecycle, when to apply it and give you some ideas about when to break away from it and make your own headway. If you think you learned all you need to know about that on your Computer Science degree, think again. It's like saying yes, I learned all about thermodynamics and motion, I can design an engine for you. Again, it's all very well to learn of strongly typed or provable languages for safety and security, but practically you're unlikely to get to choose the language so you need to know how to program robustly and defensively. And you might have learned about classes, compartmentalising and modularity. But you didn't neccessarily learn when and where it's appropriate, or how to apply it to a language that doesn't support it natively. And then there's that hushed phrase whispered occasionally by the weird guy without a heavy-metal reference anywhere about his clothing, the 'user experience'...

But that's how it's been for decades. And we still have no recognised programming qualifications.

Re: Agree on pre-degree IT exams

No A-level courses beyond the traditional ones are any use whatsoever as preparation for any HE. English, Maths, Physics, Chemistry, Biology, History, Geography, Modern Languages and that's yer lot, save maybe Music and Art if and only if you want to go on to the same thing at university.

Psychology A-level? Economics? Computer Science? Design technology? All a waste of time as far as HE goes. And anything with the word "studies" in it is fit only for wiping your bum on, at any level.

Re: I went broad instead of going deep

That's me. I never finished my degree, but after about a month of being a lab assistant: feeding the printers; I became an admin on the university mainframe...which, I think, I proceeded to crash. I do remember disassembling and reassembling a FEP to pinpoint a hardware problem because I was bored and I knew that the FE wouldn't show up to work on it until the next day.

Of course, I also climbed into the cabinet (a cable raceway) and kept quiet for 3 hours so that I could scare the crap out of the night operator...fortunately they let me out because I couldn't reach the bottom door latch.

"I teach C++ and the course has lectures that include slides headed “Cruel and Unusual Pointers”, “Why the hell did it just do that?”, and “What do these syntax errors really mean?”. Some compilers will even abuse you with “useless code at line N”, and where just declaring a variable can convince you that the compiler is a malicious artificial intelligence." -- Nice. Although, causing the complier to crash can make up for this.

".....I particularly enjoyed the irony of your talk about second tier universities as your alma-mater is in that tier!" Queen Mary's is a bit of strange horse, it used to be one of the top choices for niche studies such as avionics and aeronautical engineering. I had a mate that helped build their supersonic windtunnel and he said they were some of the most interesting engineering people he'd ever met.

Having sifted CVs I can say the worst candidate I ever accepted had studied Comp Sci at the Computing Lab at the Uni of Oxford - absolute maths and physics genius, bulging brains but not a clue how to use them. He could talk you through a dozen different programming language structures and highlight the advantages and disadvantages of each, but strugglerd with do anything practical and productive like coding a website that actually looked good. After a year he left to train as an accountant. He was regularly outperformed by a kid we had that had left school with five GCSEs and a burning interest in how the Web worked.

Re: No you choose your degree at 13

Well, only if you deliberately choose all arts or all sciences.

Unless someone's holding a gun to your head, presumably there's nothing stopping you choosing three separate sciences, maths, English, and a couple of interesting humanities. History and friends. That's only six I've mentioned specifically, so room for more and it in no way restricts you to one path or the other.