Ignorance is bliss...
99.9% of the time I forget that the EDL even exists.
Anonymous 'plonks' names, addresses of far-right EDL types on web
Computer-hacking collective Anonymous claims it has leaked online the personal details of the far-right English Defence League's members. The hackers' list - the authenticity of which has not been independently verified - includes the names and addresses of more than 200 supposed members of the controversial protest …
-
Wednesday 29th May 2013 10:32 GMT Thomas 4
Hrmm
While I really do enjoy seeing someone sticking the boot into wankers like the EDL, there are folks that sign up to forums like theirs to protest against them. Not everyone on that website is a frothing at the mouth nationalist, yet they run the risk of being lumped in with the rest of the English Dickhead League.
-
Wednesday 29th May 2013 11:52 GMT starkey
Re: Hrmm
Why would somebody sign to an EDL forum up to protest against them and use their real name?
They (the EDL) aren't exactly know for being reasonable so this seems like an odd suggestion to me, leaving aside the possibility of a hack, I certainly wouldn't trust the site administrators not to disclose my identity on a site like that if I were 'outed' as a none member.
-
-
-
Wednesday 29th May 2013 14:56 GMT Anonymous Coward
"Now if only Anonymous would do the same sort of thing and expose the details of crazy Islamic extremists."
Don't be silly - that would put the script kiddies in real danger and they don't have the balls for that. Its the same way all the supposed "edgy" commentators, writers and comedians in the media love to stick the boot in to christianity but are too scared to do the same to islam not that they'd ever admit as much. If you asked why they don't they'd just accuse you of being racist (apparently muslims are a race according to the liberal left) in an attempt to deflect attention from their cowardice.
-
Thursday 30th May 2013 10:57 GMT cyborg
"Its the same way all the supposed "edgy" commentators, writers and comedians in the media love to stick the boot in to christianity but are too scared to do the same to islam"
Most comedians - like everyone else with any damn sense - write about what they know. When "sticking the boot in" really means, "I was raised CofE and here are the silly things that happened". Fear is irrelevant and plenty of jokes have been made on Islam but that doesn't fit in with your prefab Daily Mail built worldview so whatever eh?
"If you asked why they don't they'd just accuse you of being racist "
No. See above.
The MailOnline is more your pace - back there with you and leave the thinking to grown-ups.
-
-
-
-
-
Wednesday 29th May 2013 12:01 GMT The BigYin
Re: Irony
"If you don't know, that's an awful lot of Diet Cokes, given that Islam forbids alcohol."
So does Christianity.
"Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying. But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof. [Romans 13:13-14]"
There are other quotes.
And in point of fact, I know Muslims who drink. Much less common than drinking Christians, I grant you that.
-
-
Wednesday 29th May 2013 12:48 GMT Bumpy Cat
Re: Irony
@Triggerfish
The Koran forbids alcohol from grapes, so technically it's only wine that's off-limits. More to the point, however, trying to say who is and isn't a true practitioner of the faith, from outside the faith, is not very cool. Demanding absolute adherence to scripture just buys in to the extremists viewpoint.
-
Wednesday 29th May 2013 14:44 GMT Triggerfish
Re: Irony
The Koran forbids alcohol from grapes, so technically it's only wine that's off-limits. More to the point, however, trying to say who is and isn't a true practitioner of the faith, from outside the faith, is not very cool. Demanding absolute adherence to scripture just buys in to the extremists viewpoint.
@ Bumpy Cat.
First off can I point out I did not intend to make that implication in the way you seem to be thinking, said I am not sure, at no point did I try and say with any definition say what made someone a true Muslim. In fact I think you will find that I said that many of the Muslims who drink would regard themselves as Muslims.
Re reading the comment about tenets of faith may be misinterpreted that way.
If you thought that apologies, was not what I meant to imply.
As for breaking tenets of the faith.
I may be under a misapprehension the more faithful Muslims I have known tend to shun all alcohol, even to the point we were discussing alternates to alcohol when sharing recipes even if it was only a spoonful distributed amongst a lot of ingredients. They were quite strict on it and it was a no no, the grape more being a metaphor for all alcohol.
I thought because of this it was a strict no no, but one of the things the youths did,
I've met Muslims of all sorts from trainee imams who wont even listen to music. (apparently only religious music is acceptable), however some will argue that's to strict an interpretation.
I've, drank with some, I've smoked with some, I've bought odd substances off a few, been to parties with some and have stayed with Muslims who have not had any objection to their daughters coming out to parties down the road with us.
I just am not sure how Muslim that makes them in the strictest interpretation, if a Jew chomps down on bacon butties are they still Jewish? What the cut off point?
I'd all say they were Muslim though, its never bothered me to much.
Funnily enough the only one I have met who was talking like they were on their way to radicalisation (to a scary degree of fervour), when asked about alcohol in recipes was just a case of; pah its not enough to get drunk on who cares and was probably the least informed of any I have known about their own faith and the real world.
-
Wednesday 29th May 2013 15:46 GMT Bumpy Cat
Re: Irony
@Triggerfish
Yeah, I didn't think you meant it that way, but it read that way and I wanted to clear that up. :)
It's always converts and clueless who take anything to extremes - unfortunately in some mosques there are people who are willing to steer that to violence. I remember reading an interview with one radical female convert to Islam; she said when she converted she told her children that Islam prohibited alcohol. Her eight-year-old daughter asked her "Does that mean you won't drink so much any more, mummy?", and when the woman replied yes, the daughter said "Yay!". Lady, if your eight-year-old daughter is worried about your drinking, the problem is not alcohol, or Western society, it's you.
-
Wednesday 29th May 2013 15:56 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Irony
I just am not sure how Muslim that makes them in the strictest interpretation, if a Jew chomps down on bacon butties are they still Jewish? What the cut off point?
The cut off point is when you stop trying.
The pork prohibition existed, in the beginning, because pork is a more dangerous meat to handle and it's only in recent years that we've had the technology to properly prepare and consume it on a casual basis. Does that mean the prohibition should no longer apply? That is a question that can start really long debates, but the short version is that if you think it probably doesn't then you can probably eat pork while remaining a member of a faith that doesn't eat pork. But it's best not to shout about it or you might derail normal conversations into those really long debates until nobody wants to talk to you.
I once asked a Syrian about smoky bacon crisps. You know, the ones meant to taste of bacon but containing no animal products whatsoever. He replied that he would treat it like real pork and make sure his mother never found out.
-
Wednesday 29th May 2013 18:23 GMT Triggerfish
Re: Irony
@Bumpy Cat.
No worries thought I had to as well. :)
Have to agree on the clueless bit, its a strange thing the girl I knew who was quite radicalised had a real cognitive disconnect thing going on.
@Mycho
Agree with where your coming from, that's why I don't really discount the ones who tend to break some of the tenets/laws/whatever as not being Muslim, and yeah I have listened to the debate over whether a teaspoon or so of wine in a recipe is a no no or something that they can be flexible about, it came down about half half, no one became apostate.
-
-
-
Thursday 30th May 2013 01:09 GMT Sorry that handle is already taken.
Re: Irony
"...trying to say who is and isn't a true practitioner of the faith, from outside the faith, is not very cool. Demanding absolute adherence to scripture just buys in to the extremists viewpoint."
No, it highlights the hypocrisy of picking and choosing beliefs from your religion that don't clash with modern society's standards.
-
-
Wednesday 29th May 2013 13:41 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Irony
In the canteen of my then-workplace I once sat opposite a muslim who was eating bacon. He had an explanation on how it was compatible with Islam. I wasn't paying enough attention to recite it now, but I'm sure most people can explain how their religion is compatible with the things they do anyway.
As for York, the best quote comes in the Imam's interview with GQ when he explicitly invites them to quote him that sensible people think the Taliban are nutters.
-
-
Wednesday 29th May 2013 14:59 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Irony
"You want to take followers of a mosque to the pub? Either you're being ignorant or trying to be funny. If you don't know, that's an awful lot of Diet Cokes, given that Islam forbids alcohol."
Well duh! If there was a clueless fuckwit of the day award on here you'd probably have earned it.
-
-
-
-
Wednesday 29th May 2013 11:57 GMT The BigYin
Re: Irony
I had the unfortunate occasion to be at a motorway services when they arrived. At first I thought it was a biker's outing as the uniforms looked the same (and there is a massive amount of racism in UK biking, most bikers* IME are xenophobes). Then I noticed the buses and paid more attention to the slogans on their clothing.
I left. Quickly. As I think many others did.
*I said "bikers" not "motorcyclists". Difference.
-
-
-
Wednesday 29th May 2013 10:56 GMT Velv
"Thou shall not speak words I do not want you to speak"
Censorship, be it governments, religions, or organised groups, is censorship. Anonymous are no better than the EDL in that respect. Intimidating the members of EDL is censorship. Vigilante action will go wrong, and has been seen in other places, the wrong people are named.
I don't like what EDL stand for, but I stand by their right to say it. By all means campaign against their arguments. But as soon as you censor, you radicalise.
-
-
Wednesday 29th May 2013 13:41 GMT Anonymous Coward
@The Jase
Two wrongs do not make a right. But should EDL intimidate the staff at KFC then they stand to be arrested by the police.
Assuming that the protest is valid how about not censoring anybody? One of my objections to anonymous as I understand it is that they will get happily censor any organisation for no particular reason.
In this instance their actions may well have been worse in that by releasing names and addresses they might well have incited vigilante action. Whilst it might be argued that this action is valid against the EDL I would argue otherwise (see two wrongs above). Further to this what happens with a case of mistaken identity?
-
-
Wednesday 29th May 2013 20:20 GMT ThomH
The problem with guaranteeing free speech is that you can't hold it up as the be all and end all while simultaneously saying that the EDL have the right to say anything they want but Anonymous don't have the right to say that person X is a member of the EDL.
At some point you have to balance the rights of one group against the rights of another. In this case I think the defamation angle is the right one to follow. If Anonymous has misidentified anybody then those people will likely be subject to a heavy adverse reaction. It's the rights of those individuals that should properly restrict the right to free speech.
So, yes, I'm against what Anonymous has done. I'm also against the EDL but that's neither here nor there. But I disagree with what's happened not because I think free speech is an absolute right but rather because I think that limitations are justified in specific limited cases.
-
Thursday 30th May 2013 11:11 GMT cyborg
Misunderstanding Free Speech
"The problem with guaranteeing free speech is that you can't hold it up as the be all and end all while simultaneously saying that the EDL have the right to say anything they want but Anonymous don't have the right to say that person X is a member of the EDL."
Free speech doesn't mean I get to take your bank details and publish them for general use. It's commonly understood to mean, "being free to make a political statement no matter what that is". So I could say I believe I should have the undeniable right to publish your bank details but that doesn't mean I can do so and say it's my right because of "free speech". Unless I could argue your personally identifiable details are political but I don't see that as likely to be considered valid.
Anyone else labouring under the idea it's anything else needs to get aboard the clue train.
-
This topic is closed for new posts.
Biting the hand that feeds IT
