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back to article Spillover from 400lb man squeezed fellow flier into galley

Americans struggling home from Thanksgiving have yet another etiquette nightmare to deal with: what to do when the gargantuan passenger next to you spills over and annexes most of your seat. The dilemma has been highlighted by the case of Arthur Berkowitz, who was forced to stand for seven hours on a flight from Anchorage, …

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  1. b166er

    If someone is overweight because of a medical issue, they should be entitled to a second seat at a reduced fare, but if it's a case of gluttony, then the going rate per seat and mandatory 2 seats.

    Providing the large man is a glutton, he should have been the one standing in the aisle. that would have provided 7 hours of much needed exercise. If it was a genuine medical condition, he should have been sold 2 seats.

    Oh, and the airline should have fully reimbursed Mr Berkowitz.

    Either that or airlines need a full rethink about seating allocation and we all know hell will freeze over before that day arrives.

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    1. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      What medical conditions make you fat?

      Eating too much makes you fat. You can't get fat from just breathing air. It's a law of physics. Come up with whatever excuses you want but ultimately if you're fat it's proof that you ate too damn much.

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  2. JakeyC

    Excess baggage

    And I'll bet he didn't have to pay any 'excess baggage' fee, even though he was smuggling the equivalent of two suitcases in that belly of his.

    You know you're a little fat when you can't fit into a seat; should definitely have purchased two.

    I think a new pricing model should be introduced:

    Ticket cost = BC + (CW * S * PPK)

    BC = £Basic charge (minimum cost)

    CW = Combined weight of body, clothes and all luggage

    S = Number of seats required to accommodate you without spillage

    PPK = £ per kilogram

    This way, fat people will either slim down to get better value, run out of money and starve or better still - stop taking up my personal space with their lardy overspills.

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    1. Marvin the Martian
      Reply Icon

      Variable-width seats.

      Simple: you pay per inch you take: You want to squeeze cost, you can squeeze yourself. You want spaciousness, no problem either.

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    2. Bassey
      Reply Icon

      Re: Excess Baggage

      That seems a bit harsh. I'm 1.92m tall. So, despite the fact I'm fairly trim (I run ultra-marathons) I probably weigh the same as a short lard-arse.

      BMI is also a useless system as it assumes people are 2D and so punishes the tall. Is there a system for differentiating people who weigh a lot because they are tall and/or muscular and people who weigh a lot because their eat/move ratio is out of whack?

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  3. Oliver Mayes

    I've said it before and I'll say it again.

    You should have 2 doors leading onto the plane, one 'normal' sized and one double width. If you can't fit through the normal one without a lubricant and a team of people pushing/pulling you through, then you have to buy a second seat.

    The same applies at swimming pools, but if you can't fit through the normal door then you shouldn't be wearing a swimming costume in public and the double width door just leads to the cafe.

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    1. Mike Smith
      Reply Icon
      Thumb Up

      Or better still, to the gym

      That is all.

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    2. Captain Scarlet
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      Terminator

      Buttered

      I don't want to sit next to someone who put butter (Other lubricants are available) over themselves to fit through the door!

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    3. Stoneshop
      Reply Icon
      Go

      How about the second door leading into this building?

      Mr Wiggin Good morning, gentlemen. This is a twelwe-storey block combining classical neo-Georgian features with the efficiency of modern techniques. The tenants arrive in the entrance hall here, and are carried along the corridor on a conveyor belt in extreme comfort and past murals depicting Mediterranean scenes, towards the rotating knives. The last twenty feet of the corridor are heavily soundproofed. The blood pours down these chutes and the mangled flesh slurps into these...

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    4. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      or better still

      arm rests down.

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      1. Asiren
        Reply Icon
        Facepalm

        Speaking of armrests

        My brother had a similar situation once, where he was actually ganged-up upon.

        He'd got an "emergency row" seat on a intercontinental flight in a 3-seat, door-side configuration and had sat down. Up come 2 lumbering "sweaty hambeasts" and sit *either side of him*. They knew each other, but knew that they wouldn't be comfortable sitting next to each other, and so had deliberately booked 2 seats 1 apart.

        When they went to sit down, they asked if they could raise the armrest, as otherwise "it pinches in painfully". Request was denied.

        Stewardess spotted my hapless brother in his predicament, (as the sausage between two overflowing mounds of sweaty dough) offered profuse appologies and a business class seat. Offer accepted.

        I'm just going to make sure that I have really spiky trousers on whenever I fly, so that when I sit down on their fold of skin on my seat, they'll know about it.

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  4. Dave Murray
    FAIL

    Cabin crew should have made the fat bastard stand.

    Actually they shouldn't have even let him on the flight unless he had a ticket for two seats. It's not just the extra space he's taking up but also the extra fuel the plane wil consume to shift his obscene weight.

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  5. tmTM

    Why

    Was the gigantic swingbelly not made to stand instead.

    His weight, his problem.

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    1. disgruntled yank
      Reply Icon

      Maybe

      Maybe because he would have obstructed passenger access to the toilets and crew access to the toilets and galley. And if sudden turbulence were to cause the unsecured to lose footing, better it be a comparatively svelte 200-pounder. Would you want the 400-pounder to fall onto you? American football players have such things happen, but they are padded, trained, and themselves bulked up to withstand it.

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      1. Flashy Red
        Reply Icon

        Well, if the fat bastard was a safety risk then he should have been turned away. Tut, money talks.

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  6. BoxedSet

    I have seen such a dilemna occur on a US flight before, a very large passenger who was too big to fit in an aircraft seat had to be moved up a class just so their oversized frame could be seated......... best bit was when someone started beeping as they backed up to let the stewardess by.....

    The lardasses should be made to pay extra for their flights! Either that or AA should buy a few Hercules transport planes

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    1. Michael H.F. Wilkinson Silver badge
      Reply Icon

      Better still

      Use an Antonov 225

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    2. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      didn't read the article? @BoxedSet

      > or AA should buy a few Hercules transport planes

      Article says it was a US Airways flight, not American.

      But, you know, attention to details is over-rated.

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  7. Michael H.F. Wilkinson Silver badge
    Coat

    Was it the Dean of Unseen University?

    always referred to as "two-chairs".

    Mine is the one with the Unseen University logo.

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  8. Charles Calthrop
    Thumb Down

    "genes"

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    1. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      Well if they would just stop eating genes they'd lose weight.

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    2. AndyS
      Reply Icon
      Thumb Down

      Funny how few people have those "genes" in countries where calories cost more, isn't it?

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  9. Red Bren
    Unhappy

    Wrong solution

    Why wasn't the fat passenger made to stand?

    It's time that airlines and other public transport* providers enforced width restrictions on passengers. If you're too wide to fit in a single seat with the arm rests down, you either pay for two seats** when you book, or face being surcharged or denied boarding if there's no space for your wide load.

    But why is height being brought into the discussion? Being tall is not a lifestyle choice. Being fat is. If anyone thinks I'm being unfair and wants to disagree, can they provide links to peer-reviewed medical reports showing obesity is a disease that can't be cured by healthy eating and regular exercise?

    * I'm sick of fat people sitting next to me on trains.

    ** To be fair, you should get the second seat at a discount or get the additional baggage allowance.

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    1. Lloyd
      Reply Icon
      Facepalm

      I'm sick of fat people sitting next to me on trains?

      I don't even sit on trains any more, my shoulders are too broad to even contemplate using one seat. On a plane my body sits quite happily between the armrests but.... I have very broad shoulders and I do kinda have arms that spill onto the rests, it not a lifestyle choice, I'm not obese I'm just built like a brick shithouse, I can't help it.

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      1. MrCheese
        Reply Icon
        Meh

        Train Seats

        I'd imagine plane seats will, if they haven't already, go the same way as train seats, i.e. as wide as your torso with your arms and shoulders removed, one of the regional news programmes actually demonstrated it to a train operator who mumbled useless hyperbole and left!

        If I find the link I'll re-post!

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        1. Graham Marsden
          Reply Icon

          @MrCheese

          You're probably looking for something broadcast by South Today as Penny Mordaunt, MP for Portsmouth North raised this matter in Parliament regarding the seats in the 450 class as operated by South West trains which are ridiculously small (16.9 inches wide, ie smaller than my keyboard!)

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    2. dr2chase
      Reply Icon

      I think you're being a tad arbitrary

      I manage to not be obese, mostly by exercise, some by diet, but I am still overweight (220lbs, weighed as little as 175 in college -- at that point I was dense enough to not float). Losing ten more pounds would be very difficult, because my body has found its happy-weight-place. The exercise (bicycle commuting to work on nice-enough days) goes up in the summer, at which point I lose about 3 lbs and get ravenously hungry ("mmmm, look at that roadkill.")

      So on the one hand, just as the very-tall are offered extra leg room at more cost, so should the very fat be offered extra-wide seats at more cost.

      But it would also be nice to cut everyone just a bit of extra slack. After all, look at all the "carry-on" luggage that people are incapable of actually carrying, and all the time wasted at departure and arrival as they struggle to heft their too-heavy-for-them bag in and out of the overheads. For some people, being that weak is a medical condition, but everyone knows that with regular exercise and an active lifestyle ....

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      1. James Micallef Silver badge
        Reply Icon

        bag-hefting

        easyjet has the right cabin-baggage policy here: Fixed maximum size, no weight limit as long as you can lift it into the overhead bin unaided

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      2. Anonymous Coward
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        Anonymous Coward

        "my body has found its happy-weight-place."

        in other words, you have reached a point where you are too lazy to get more in shape.

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      3. Blitterbug
        Reply Icon
        Happy

        Cutting peeps slack is all very well...

        ...but aeroplanes are not like restaurants where chunkies can be accomodated relatively easily - I don't want to be worried because some hideous salad-dodger is tipping the wings. I'm overweight myself but not overwide, but still acknowledge I'm a fecking greedy git and that's why I'm a chubster.

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      4. Vic
        Reply Icon

        > I manage to not be obese ... 220lbs

        If you're less than 6ft tall, that's a BMI[1] of at least 30, which is indicative of obesity...

        Vic.

        [1] Yes, I know BMI is a blunt instrument, which is why I said "indicative of obesity". But if you've got a BMI of 30 and you're not a professional rugby player, you're probably obese...

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    3. Jim Morrow
      Reply Icon
      Coat

      > I'm sick of fat people sitting next to me on trains.

      you lucky bastard! how the fuck did you manage to get a seat on a train?

      or are you standing next to the lardarses who are sitting?

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  10. Code Monkey
    Thumb Up

    "sweaty hambeasts"

    Ah if only I were looking for a new commentard name...

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    1. Captain Save-a-ho
      Reply Icon
      Coat

      Or..

      A new unit of measure

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  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Reclining seats ...

    reminds me of a time in New Jersey, when I got put up in a hotel used by airline staff ... there were some checkin girls having a drink nearby, and they were swapping tales of how they dealt with pain-in-the-ass travellers.

    They all agreed that putting them in the seat near the rear door was a good one ... it didn't recline, and you had the banging of the toilet door every few minutes ... not fun on an 8 hour journey.

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  12. Northern Fop
    Mushroom

    Reclining seats and inconsiderate gits

    There's simply no need for a reclining seat for journeys of less than 4 hours, and I for one would *happily* do without a reclining seat on any length of flight if it meant the person in front was unable to recline theirs.

    Oh, and just because you've finished your meal doesn't mean I've finished mine, you selfish drink-toppling oaf.

    [lightbulb moment]

    If you have to have reclining seats, why not have the controls available to the person behind you! Or at least a little tethered locking pin. It's genuis I tell you!!

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    1. BenM 29 Silver badge
      Reply Icon
      Happy

      >>Oh, and just because you've finished your meal doesn't mean I've finished mine, you selfish drink-toppling oaf.

      When this last happend to me, I just shoved my knees into the back of the reclined seat. Being not particularly short helps here. The berk soon straightened up his chair;

      B.

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    2. Chris Miller
      Reply Icon

      It's genius and it's been done

      http://www.kneedefender.com/

      Or you can go on Ryanair whose fleet have non-reclining seats, though you may feel there are compensating drawbacks.

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      1. Northern Fop
        Reply Icon
        Angel

        Knee Defender

        OMFG I'm getting me some of those.

        Thanks, Chris.

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      2. Andus McCoatover
        Reply Icon
        Windows

        Ryanair's little joke

        Their fleet have non-reclining seats, sure.

        So, why, in preparation for landing do they tell you to "Make sure your seat is in the upright position" ?

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      3. Winkypop Silver badge
        Reply Icon
        Thumb Up

        Rah!

        Thanks for the link

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    3. Hungry Sean
      Reply Icon
      Thumb Up

      here here

      I'm by no means tall, but the various American carriers like to pack seats so tight (at least on domestic flights) that your knees end up shoved against the back of your fellow passenger regardless. The seat goes back and it's not just against my knees, I no longer have room to hold a book in front of myself to read. If they're going to pack the seats so tight, they should take out the reclining.

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      1. perlcat
        Reply Icon
        Trollface

        It's never been a problem for me.

        I always carry a few takeout pepper packets on long flights. If I get someone leaning their seat all the way back into my privates, I drink a glass of water, open a packet, snort some pepper, and sneeze onto their head six or seven times. It takes longer with kids -- their parents have to see their kids head actually getting wet before the old lightbulb comes on, and they make Junior sit back up.

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  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Im not phat

    I'm big boned.....

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    1. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      I'm big boned.....

      So's a stegosaurus!

      (Thanks to Judy Tenuta for that one)

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  14. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Why the hell did he let them put the arms up?

    My tactic is to stuff the inflight magazines between the chair arm and my thigh.

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  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Discrimination against fat people

    The only discrimination that's still socially acceptable

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    1. rav
      Reply Icon

      You are wrong.

      If you are a rickshaw peddler and a fat person sat in your rickshaw charging them more is not discrimination, it is a surcharge.

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      1. Oliver Mayes
        Reply Icon

        "If you are a rickshaw peddler and a fat person sat in your rickshaw charging them more is not discrimination, it is a surcharge."

        But think of the wear and tear savings that come with having your front wheel pointing up in the air.

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    2. James Hughes 1
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      What about the discrimination of the normal human who was unable to sit down on a seat he paid for?

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