back to article Prime Minister recalls holidaying MPs after London riots

Prime Minister David Cameron has recalled Parliament after three nights of rioting, looting and arson on London's streets. The Palace of Westminster is currently in recess until 5 September, but MPs have been told to return to the House of Commons for one day on Thursday. Meanwhile, retailers across the capital are still …

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  1. Pete 2 Silver badge

    A diversionary tactic?

    > MPs have been told to return to the House of Commons for one day on Thursday

    So is the idea to prevent further destruction of private property by presenting the arsonists and thieves with an even juicier target in Westminster?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Happy

      I'll second that

      park the tanks, troops, helicopter gunships etc round the back. Let the rioters collect. Round them up. Rinse and repeat.......................

      Sadly it won't work these people aren't protesters, they are just thieving scum. But a nice thought anyway.

      1. Leeroy
        Thumb Down

        Title

        The armed forces would not be used against civilians, that is what the police are for.

        1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
          Big Brother

          So say we all

          "There's a reason you separate military and the police. One fights the enemies of the state, the other serves and protects the people. When the military becomes both, then the enemies of the state tend to become the people."

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Stop

            The answer is the army...

            ... but not in the way you're thinking.

            Instead of paying these yobs welfare handouts, re-introduce conscription, and pay them the equivalent as a wage whilst focussing their aggression, teaching them respect, and bringing our armed forces back up to strength.

            Then after a bit of enforced growing-up, which our schools seem incapable of providing, they can be re-introduced as positive members of our society.

            1. Pete 2 Silver badge

              and then what? ...

              > re-introduce conscription

              once they get de-scripted, they come back onto the streets except know they've been trained in the use of automatic weapons and 6 ways to kill you, using just their thumb. And the blokes are likely to be even more dangerous.

            2. Yet Another Commentard

              National service

              "Then after a bit of enforced growing-up, which our schools seem incapable of providing, they can be re-introduced as positive members of our society."

              But with weapons and tactical training too, and the benefit of being made really fit into the bargain.

              Why not just have them all chained together and pick up litter, clean drains, scrub graffitti, clear the canals, return the plasma TV (and pay for the broken windows)...

              etc. Under supervision of the army possibly, but making them the army's problem I don't think is a good idea.

            3. Peter Murphy
              Stop

              Britain: do you want an army to fight your wars, or an army as an employment scheme?

              It's a nice beguiling fantasy: seargent with twirling moustache against a lot of 'orrible 'olligans, and the NCO turns these truants into men.

              But the problem is that the British Armed forces currently (a) have minimum standards for conscripts in education and fitness, which would have to be relaxed to admit the rioters, and (b) is all volunteer. It's not WWII, where there's a common enemy to fight, and where you need every warm bodied male. There will be some who will try it out, because they've got nothing else to do - and there will be others who want to be back with their mates on the street, and just don't have the self-discipline or the smarts for the job.

              And when there's the possibility of serving in Afghanistan... my god. I don't know if it would end up that way, but I'm thinking of how the US armed forces - which at the time had a lot of conscripts - decayed in Vietnam.

              http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2877/did-soldiers-really-frag-officers-in-vietnam

              "In short, for all the tales of soldiers assaulting gung-ho officers they feared would get them killed, a more likely explanation is that fragging was the work of rear-echelon misfits with anger management and substance issues who sulked after getting chewed out and decided to have their revenge. The nature of the war as such likely contributed only indirectly — its unpopularity discouraged enlistment and compelled the military to accept more trouble-prone recruits. The prevalence of drugs couldn’t have helped either — one study of soldiers returning from Vietnam found one-fifth had been addicted to narcotics."

              And who would be the most likely to frag officers in the new conscript-ready British Army? Yes, there at the back? Exactly. The people who had been rioting before being conscripted! And Afghanistan is not known for being short of drugs.

              So let's leave our poor seargant alone. He's tough but fair. He doesn't deserve tripping over a line in the barracks and detonating an IED because some smacked-out miscreant wants to be back in Brixton.

              Instead, let's try other ideas, like.... cutting austerity measures, tax the rich, and they try to use to get more jobs in the UK. Our would-be miscreant would probably be happier gainfully employed, and having to go to bed early for work next day is a deterrent to rioting. Let's give him a chance, shall we?

              Having said that, if National Service is the go, then the conscripts will probably have to work on their physical fitness. Playstations (a favorite target for theft) don't exactly help you at hand-to-hand fighting. So Cameron and Clegg as personal punching bags for the recruits? Suits me, sir.

              1. Clare (web specialist)
                Thumb Down

                Young people

                These are the young people who simply haven't been provided with the educational and employment opportunities that they deserve. The generation of children and young people who have been let down by this and previous governments.

                Comments above about National service, and worse are simply barbaric, you should be ashamed for these suggestions. You forget that these disaffected youth are also citizens of the UK.

                1. Vic

                  Nonsense.

                  > These are the young people who simply haven't been provided with the

                  > educational and employment opportunities that they deserve.

                  They have been provided with every educational opportunity. To a large extent, they have *chosen* to eschew such opportunities. The State is at fault only inasmuch as it permits an environment where children can make decisions with such onerous consequences at such a young age - but given the reaction I have seen[1] from some parents when a school attempts to discipline a child, it is hardly surprising that we end up with what we've got. That's democracy in action.

                  Vic.

                  [1] My missus is a teacher. Irate parents seem to be part of the job, particularly when you point out that children shouldn't be truanting if they expect any future employment opportunities...

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Mushroom

        Re: Title

        With respect to how the situation escalated, the rioters no longer have the right to call themselves "civilians" and enjoy the rights and protection normally associated with such.

        Daniel

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Happy

      Hmmmm

      "Prime Minister David Cameron has recalled Parliament after three nights of rioting, looting and arson on London's streets."

      Comes to something when even the PM is out rioting looting and setting fire to things. Tsk!

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    And now we will have...

    ..to listen to bullshit comments from the politicians claiming the rioters are only doing it because they are poor and oppressed.

    Its not really their fault, its the fault of the state or the police or their parents or the education system or their upbringing or whatever.

    1. Chris Harden
      Mushroom

      Ken

      I would have punch Ken Livingstone in the face if I were near him for doing that last night. Utter Idiots.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Yep

      Assign fault later. For the moment, stop those poor unprivileged bastards from destroying what value there is left in their towns.

      I have no sympathy "why" you did something like this until someone has stopped you doing it first. And to be honest, I have little sympathy even then because you're the only person responsible for your own actions and you still did it.

      You know what, my (great-)grandparents generation had nothing, were given nothing, fought a war for little gratitude and still didn't go rioting through the streets about it. What's the matter? Not getting enough playstations with your benefits money? Aw, shame, so you're *OBVIOUSLY* justified in rioting then and destroying others hard work that they DID earn...

      1. Ocular Sinister
        WTF?

        A little history...

        > my (great-)grandparents generation had nothing, were given nothing, fought a war for little gratitude and still didn't go rioting through the streets about it.

        What, apart from the Tonypandy Riots, the Battle of Bow Street, the Battle of Cable Street and Notting Hill Race Riots to name a few? I'll stop in the 50's given your (great-)grandparents modifier, but there certainly were riots in the early 20th century. None in the 40s... we must have been busy with something else...

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          @Ocular Sinister

          "Battle of Cable Street" was a street fight between Moseley's Blackshirts and anti-fascist demonstrators.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Facepalm

        blah blah blah

        What an interesting and original take on matters. The part about your grandparents and the war was particularly inspiring and uncliched, and didn't make you sound like a 60-year-old at all.

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Holmes

        Although...

        ...they have seen the people who trashed the economy going unpunished and keeping every penny they DIDN'T earn (as we know with the benefit of hindsight.)

        It's unlikely the people rioting have put the pieces together and figured that out, but we are seeing a generation with practically zero prospects for the future. So, to that extent, it IS like the 1980s.

        Still, on a practical level, the rioters do need to be shot in the interests of public safety.

        1. Mark 65

          @AC 19:30

          Please keep the pointless opinions on banks out of this. They were lending money to the very people defining the expectation culture who didn't want to work and save but instead have it "now now now damn it". I would argue that the citizens of the country got the banks they deserved - don't complain about bailing them out when you as a collective benefited from excessive borrowing that brought about their downfall. I didn't hear anybody complaining about lax regulation when collecting their increased 100% mortgages to spunk on a holiday and a new car.

          That aside, I agree with your final point, these rioters are scum and have no place in our society.

          1. Magnus_Pym

            @Mark 65

            You know all these rioters financial histories, how much they borrowed and how much they paid back? Thought not.

            Did these people buy property in a house-of-cards US mortgage system? Did they queue up to join Maydorf style ponzi schemes on the promise of obviously unrealistic returns while poach-turned-poacher financial regulators looked the other way? Did they shift millions of people's pensions in and out of get-rich-quick dot com no-hopers? Did they seek to destabilise national currencies in order to speculate. Did they award themselves massive bonuses on the supposed long term profits of money lending that was bound to fail in the short term?

            No, I thought not.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Paris Hilton

          Two for one offer

          As a matter of practical justice can we have a banker (or ten) included in the tumbrel for every rioter.

          It's a fine argument which is worse, reckless greed torching a shopping centre just down the road or reckless greed blighting the lives of everyone but the rich for the next 20 years.

          Paris for the IT angle.

    3. MarkieMark1
      Holmes

      those kinds of attitudes

      won't prevent a repetition though, will they?

      get a grip, what is this the daily wail comments?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Stop

        Those kinds of attitudes....

        Won't afford us answers or solutions will they? It's all well and good slagging off other people's opinions but were are your lofty ideas on how to peacefully resolve the situation and prevent a repition?

        Just curious

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Flame

          Suggestions

          I have a few ideas on how to resolve the situation, and prevent repetition. I guess things have to get a tad worse before they might be considered. Mind 'peaceful' probably isn't part of the solution to my mind.

          These are people that feel they are entitled to things which they haven't worked for, I would suggest some training courses that revise their attitudes.

          1. John G Imrie

            Re: Suggestions

            These are people that feel they are entitled to things which they haven't worked for, I would suggest some training courses that revise their attitudes.

            Like MP's and expencise.

            or

            Tabloid Jurnalists and 'exclucives'

            or

            Bankers and Bonuses

            or

            Local council Executives and golden goodbys

            or ....

            But you get the picture.

            1. Lee Dowling Silver badge
              Angel

              Re: Suggestions

              or

              You and a spell-checker.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Facepalm

      What you will find is...

      ... That certain powers in some legislation that should deal with widespread unrest like this requires parliament to be consulted. This means HoC and HoL, and it does mean that a debate needs to take place to keep rule of law within bounds.

      If that wasn't the case, we'd be no better than the banana republics we've been bollocking publicly for their appalling behaviour in the last year.

    5. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: And now we will have...

      Indeed. World + dog is to blame, not the poor rioters.

      Daniel

  3. MH Media
    FAIL

    It woz Colonel Sandess what done it!

    Scotland Yard has begun publishing a gallery of rogues captured on CCTV overnight. It's so far posted 15 images on Flickr

    The usual rubbish CCTV pix (another procurement farce?) and the clearest image is that of Colonel Sanders, maniacly grinning in his usual style. He needs to be arrested. Pronto!

    1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
      Trollface

      Wasn't that "Captain Swing"?

      Or maybe General Ludd.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Impressive tech

      I especially like the fact that most of them seem to be pictures taken with a camera pointed at a screen with the CCTV video paused on it (although they must have spent a while lining up, some aren't bad considering the frankly pathetic method used to get a screen shot).

      I never understood why even the best quality CCTV cameras are worse quality than the absolute worst cheapest cameras you can buy anywhere else - are there really manufacturers who specialise in making crap quality cameras that nobody in their right mind would buy to sell as "high quality CCTV"?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        @Impressive tech

        It's not the CCTV cameras that are poor quality, it's the recording medium - many cameras are very high quality, just recorded onto the same weekly recycled tape for decades.

        Also - photographing a screen has been a technology that's been used for ages - from oscilloscope poloroids to photographing high res monitors for film special effects.

  4. Sarah Davis
    Coat

    whats the problem ?

    i don't get why any one is surprised. some years ago the government abolished discipline, the teaching of respect, and removed bounderies. The consequences were predictable, but no-one stood up to challenge the morons in power. i suspected that the gov weren't short-sighted, but in fact this was a calculated maneuver. The current gov (which no-one voted for) have announced their plan to cut over 2000 cops from London streets (yes, that's justified), and thanks to gov overspending many councils have been forced to shut down 'yoof clubs' etc

    So now we have herds of unruly morons running round in 'gangs' with no scruples or respect, with no bounderies and no concept of discipline or consequence, setting fire to hairdressers and coffee shops etc.

    Lets see what the gov offer to do, and what we stand to loose so we can have a safe society

    1. PsychicMonkey
      FAIL

      Erm. wrong

      just because the guy/girl you voted for didn't get in doesn't mean you didn't vote for this government. Everybody who voted, voted for this government, it's called democracy.

      You can't blame poiticians for this. Although you and people like you will still try.

      1. Pete 2 Silver badge

        Erm, double wrong

        > Everybody who voted, voted for this government, it's called democracy.

        You seem to be confusing the specific and the general cases.

        People who vote are supporting the principle of democratic government, but not necessarily the one that wins the election.

        Just like if there was a referendum to bring back capital punishment, if I voted against it, that doesn't mean I want CP just because I voted.

        1. PsychicMonkey
          Meh

          no confusion

          if you voted, you voted for this government.

          Your vote was counted, again just because you didn't support the guy that won doesn't mean you vote didn't help to form the government.

          A referendum is different, thats a yes or no vote.

          1. MrCheese
            FAIL

            Wrong again

            I voted, not for this party (or any of the main three) although some governemnt remains in tact when the parties change so I suppose you could argue I voted for hte currecnt incarnation but it's tenuos at best.

            Voting represents your support of democracy, not of party

      2. Debe
        Thumb Up

        Protest Vote

        I didn’t vote for this government…I voted for Optimus Prime, had to write the name and draw the box before I ticked it but I stand by my decision considering the alternatives.

        As a truck Optimus Prime will certainly be for motorists, living in a rural region that’s a big plus for me.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      @Sarah

      "The current gov (which no-one voted for) "

      *blink* You what? I think you'll find that the Tory and Lib Dem voters did. It's not their fault that all three parties are basically the same. If you mean that no-one voted for the PM, then that's true; that's how our system works.

      "thanks to gov overspending many councils have been forced to shut down 'yoof clubs' etc"

      Well perhaps they should claim the taxes owed by their multi-national buddies? Whoops! HMRC is letting them off their debts and no MP wants to lose their lucrative directorships.

      Here's what I want them to do:

      1) Deploy the army, restore order even if it means marshal law for a time.

      2) Lead by example: *JAIL* those who made fraudulent claims, expel them from the parties, forbid them from ever holding any public office ever again.

      3) Sack Hartnett and begin an investigation into his actions.

      4) Claw-back the billions owed by the multi-nationals.

      5) Lead by example. So important I am saying it twice.

      1. Miek

        Deploy the Army!?

        "1) Deploy the army, restore order even if it means marshal law for a time."

        Are you all joking, should they use M16 or M60s*? Perhaps we could airstrike London?

        I am betting that some form of humbling of the Police for shooting another person under dubious circumstances is more likely to help. The police handling of the initial incident seems a bit dodgy as it transpires that the injured police officer may have been hit with a police bullet rather than the young man in the taxi. So who fired first.

        I have to say that : I do not condone the thievery and vandalism taking place with these riots, but feel there is a just reason for the angst. A protest would be a more appropriate action, that is until the police start kettling everyone.

        * American weapons, I know.

        1. Mark 65

          @Miek

          In fact, I have read, that the round that hit the officer may have been a threw-and-threw from the kill shot i.e. the officer that shot dead the suspect also hit his mate.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        And after looking all the way back

        to, say, Blair Peach, stop letting the coppers get away with murder.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Flame

    Led by example

    MPs fraudulently claim expense - no action taken.

    Bankers take massive risks, ruin the economy, commit frauds - no action taken, bonuses all round.

    Police abuse authority - retire early with honours & pension, no action taken.

    Civil servants screw up major public contracts - promoted to new positions, no action taken.

    Multi-nationals evade taxes - get preferential treatment from HMRC, no action taken.

    Whilst some may bemoan the "loss of discipline", which is certainly a factor, the greater problem is that people are led by example. MPs of all parties have been showing that it is A-OK to break the law (or allow others to break it) for personal gain; so why is anyone surprised when something like this happens?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Some corrections...

      MPs fraudulently claim expense - no action taken.

      - Actually a few went to court for fraud. Far too few though...

      Bankers take massive risks, ruin the economy, commit frauds - no action taken, bonuses all round.

      - Actually, the economy and deficit were already well established before the banking crisis. Last straw on the horses back though.

      Police abuse authority - retire early with honours & pension, no action taken.

      - Didn't they retire before chanrges were pressed? In which case, not much can be done, bar changing the law to allow post-depature charges.

      Civil servants screw up major public contracts - promoted to new positions, no action taken.

      - You're bloody right there. Overpaid bloody muppets.

      Multi-nationals evade taxes - get preferential treatment from HMRC, no action taken.

      - If it's legal, it's a 'fair' (well...sort of) cop. I doubt HMRC would have turned down the chance to cash in.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        @AC

        "I doubt HMRC would have turned down the chance to cash in."

        You'd think that, and you'd be wrong. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Hartnett#Vodafone_controversy

    2. Scott 19

      Have to agree

      When the public sector is carving up the tax pot and then when it run out started borrowing more to nick then you can't blame a few people for thinking it seemed like a good idea.

      If your allowed to screw the public over if you work for the Goverment why moan when private citizens do it?

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Thumb Up

      Ah, so they're bankers ? ? ?

      Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg called the rioting "opportunistic theft".

      ( http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14442935 )

      My reaction from the other side of the pond. "So, we're all bankers now?"

  6. Chris Harden
    Devil

    Currys?

    "Unconfirmed reports on Twitter suggest that the Currys store in New Cross, south-east London, was ransacked by looters last night."

    Ha! The joke is on the looters! They are gonna be PISSED when they try to flog that gear online and realise it isn't worth quite as much as Currys said it was.

    1. Rainer
      Pirate

      Doesn't matter

      Doesn't matter to Curry's anyway. As long as their insurer pays...

      At least, El Reg already has an appropriate logo for all this...

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