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Well well well, looks like the US have their PR hands full for the next decade or so...
Oh the irony...
> we want transparency and we counter censorship
says a group of anonymous people blocking access to websites...
Oh the bronzy...
I guess the anonymity thing is all about steering well clear of those chaps who provide the courtesy shuttle bus to Uncle Sam's famous holiday camps.
And I'll bet the "blocking access to websites" stuff is due to the asymmetrical nature of the conflict – it's probably in lieu of marching in to the capital and topping a bronze statue of whatever crook is in charge.
The difference is, personal anonymity works...
...with public conspiracy open to public scrutiny.
What is being fought is known people using the cloak of secrecy to get away with illegal activities right out in the open.
ThePayPalBlog.com is up for me "The year of APIs and the reshaping of the payment ecosystem: Part 1" Paypal.com never went down AFAIK.
Not very impressive, just like when they took down the conservatives website, which turned out to be a local MPs site with tens of visitors denied access for up to hours at a time.
I heard it was eBaumsworld who did it.
Democracy? Freedom? Anon, how you have failed thee.
As a member of a rights group that tries to organise donations via Pay Pal (and it doesn't friggin work) I'd welcome a worldwide boycott of Pay Pal, e-bay and its other scam-magnet affiliate, gumtree. They all deserve it for their own annoying ways.
you must admit
Ebay are very fair to all though you must admit - they're one of the few companies that actually screws everyone from consumers, to small business right up to big global luxury brands!
As long as they get their cut they don't seem to give a shit what's sold through their site! Whether its real of fake, was delivered on time or never showed up, nah, they don't care!* That's my opinion at least based on buying a fake product from their site.
Paris, 'cus at least with her, you know you're getting the genuine article and her dispute resolution system is second to none!
Now there's a site I haven't visited in years. Awful place.
I went through the "eBay phase" much as everyone does, selling all my stuff for pennies on the pound only to end up buying a whole bunch of cheap second hand crap, sorry, "bargains", that's still wasting space in my house to this day.
Glad I grew out of that. Nowadays when someone says "I make a living on eBay" the words "loser" or "con artist" are never too far behind.
There are so many negative connotations attached to eBay now that saying you use it is almost as bad as admitting that you film people from the bushes, then sell them the tapes.
eBay Stasi are hard at work!
You've never accidentally sold anything that contravenes their policies then?
I tried to sell a GP32 OSS game device about 2-3 years ago, I put in the description that it could play ZX Spectrum games. Next thing the eBay Stasi are down on me, pulled my auction and threatened me with a "quiz of honesty" to ensure I don't do it again next time I try to list something!
When I complained I was told, "We don't single people out, but we must ensure that no counterfeiting or selling of counterfeit goods are performed on eBay.". I pointed out that a simple browse through the Sony PSP listings shows countless violations of their so called policies, no reply.
Anonymous seem to be turning into the internet version of the US Government, self-appointed guardians of the content of the web, stepping in wherever they disagree with a decision made by others and attempting to throw their weight around in an attempt to make sure their interests are retained without interferance.
I prefer the reasons why Anonymous are doing this rather than the reasons why Governments are trying to halt the activities of WikiLeaks and character-assassinate Assange.
Personally I think the world will be a better more open place in 3 years time once the WikiLeaks dust has settled.
Is it time for new Assange devil/angel icons on the comments here?
with a slight difference
Anon doesnt have money. They dont lobby senators and MPs on golf courses. its beyond the realm of possibility that the things they want will be quietly greenlit into law by civil servants without review.
They also dont have unified agreement. If you dont support Assange, then you dont have to campaign. its not like the FDA or GlaxoSmithKline-Beecham, where if you disagree with something you can just not do it.
So no, its not a valid comparison. they can DDoS and subvert, but they cant threaten trade embargoes. they cant recall your countries debt or intimate that unless you sell them cheap _resource x_ you'll get it from elsewhere and you'll buy everything else their country sells from somewhere else too.
Anonymous' agenda, and its effectiveness in pursuing that agenda is only as limited as the drive and commitment of each individual member _to each specific cause_.
Genius tag because you're obviously being wilfully obtuse.
That you posted as AC - that is quite possibly the finest, most elegantly argued comment I have ever read at El Reg! Keep it up!
Ah, "Anonymous" wants to combat censorship by censoring PayPal. Yeah, that'll impress people.
"The means by which we strive must be consistent with the ends we seek!"
- Dr. Martin Luthor King
Do I have to remind you how he ended his days?
will censor the censors of the censors? And who will censor them in turn.
Or is it more an ouroboros thing?
RE: Luther King..
"Do I have to remind you how he ended his days?"
On the playground is where he spent mosta his days,
Chillin out, maxin', relaxin' all cool,
An' all shootin some B-ball outside of the school,
When a couple o' guys who were up to no good,
Started makin' trouble in his neighbourhood,
He got in one little fight and his mum got scared,
She said 'You're movin with your auntie and uncle in Bel-Air!'
Save us all from those who know they are right
Censoring websites and organisations that you do not agree with is not censorship. Censorship is a necessary step in the fight against censorship.
It's not hypocrisy if you refuse to accept there is any other alternative. There is no alternative. Those who think there is an alternative can be ignored.
All those who do not agree with this will be punished until they see the errors of their ways.
Freedom must not stand in the way of the struggle for Freedom
Ya Gotta Be Kidding
> Censorship is a necessary step in the fight against censorship.
Excuse my while I laugh so hard my keyboard shorts out from the drool...!
Anonymous will support your freedom...
... to do what you like as long as they agree with it.
The moment you exercise you freedom and decide not to do business with, say, wikileaks they will attack you.
Ironically, it was an AC who said . . .
"The moment you exercise you freedom and decide not to do business with, say, wikileaks they will attack you"
I don't do business with Wikileaks? Should I be prepared for an attack?
When /b/ first came for PayPal, I didn't say anything...
...but then again, PayPal deserved it.
We should boycott paypal
because they seriously overcharge for a simple service.
As for Anonymous - who are they? No seriously, by what right other than self importance do they do these thing?
They have as much right to do this
As the governments of the world have to take my money and kill in my name.
"message board 4chan"
4chan is not a message board, it's a website hosting a bunch of message boards. Anonymous is associated with 4chan's /b/ messageboard.
the web would be boring
if it weren't for stuff like this.
Where normally I would say "go anonymous", I don't really have an opinion on this one, but you can't deny the entertainment value.
I know plenty of people disagree with their tactics and view them as irresponsible "skiddies" (a term I never knew existed before reading el reg comments).
I don't disagree with the sentiment but rules quickly become meaningless when only one side plays by them - right now that's us, and until not so long ago, probably most of Anonymous too.
Might seem a little OT but I'm mostly talking about Operation Payback here. Not sure if I will be cheering on Operation Assange or not, but I will be getting in some popcorn.
The removal of the veil of invisible government, is something to desire not fear
It's almost as though those with the intellectual capacity to harness the full capabilities of the technologies allowed in the hands of the people don't wish to be silenced, this can only be applauded.
For too long we as people have been held back from any form of intellectual, spiritual and evolutionary progression by the crimes and illusion of governance foisted onto those of us less keen on it's subtle controls.
Pity none of you opposing this, see or even barely understand this very concept, your desires for the slavery of man is not one that will be met without a fight, only know this if anything at all, we have control of transmission.
PayPal must be used to DDoS, but from criminals
I would imagine they are held to ransom, frequently. (From Eastern European gangs etc.) They probably have the infrastructure to deal with a moderate DDoS attack.
I too champion Wikileaks, Assange & transparency, but I don't think this approach will actually get any results.
I'm sure the eBaums World crowd have a good heart, but they should realise it's not legal and it won't work. Lobbying MPs? As if they give a fuck about what we think! Hah. They have to obey the party leader - they would get sacked if they opposed a policy. (Remember what happened to Professor David Nutt -- and he wasn't even a politician!)
Anyway, great coverage El Reg.
PS - be sure to check out the Wikileaks rap video on Youtube (news spoof)
so its better that we let the US govt control all the web content for us then?
yeah much better not upset them with the truth.
"The most perfidious way of harming a cause consists of defending it deliberately with faulty arguments."
- although the article does say they plan on doing other, more constructive activities as well...
I'm from 4chan. I'm a socialist, not an anarchist. Just because the website has no real rules doesn't mean the people who go there are anarchists lad. Get your facts right.
Assange is the patron saint of trolls
4chan manage to annoy scientologists, big deal.
Assange manages to dick off most of the world, and with some incredible style. I'm sure 4chan appreciates that.
Whilst these people might be calling themselves Anonymous it's quite clear by their mission statement that these are not the same people who started the movement on /b/, or for that matter even have the same mind-set.
What happened to the RAGE anon?
This isn't about transparency, you f*cking morons. People are going to die if this "leaking" of information/Julian Assange's personal crusade continues. There's nothing clever about releasing information likely to endanger people and potentially start a conflict. And living near to one of the locations listed in the most recent "leak" makes it all the more worrying.
Grenade, for WikiLeaks and all it's mirrors.
>People are going to die if this "leaking" of information/Julian Assange's personal crusade continues.
You mean just like all the people who died because Pres. bush had a personal crusade against iraq and invented the weapons of mass destruction BS to start a war. The US govn. even exposed one of their own secret service staff (V Plame) and put her and her family in danger! One one word for the us "Hypocrite".
Just look at how much energy the us is using to stop WikiLeaks, it might be better if this was used against kiddy porn instead.
For the first time in ages on The Reg, the name of the poster actually fits the subject of the post.
Utter piffle and total bilge from Mr Bilgepipe!
"You mean just like all the people who died because Pres. bush had a personal crusade against iraq and invented the weapons of mass destruction BS to start a war."
So that makes it okay to leak information likely to endanger MORE innocent people in the name of Assange's idea of transparency? Instead of going after Bush and his cronies at the time, or seeking to prevent more Bushes and cronies from doing the same in the future, we endanger more people and infrastructure?
Bizarre. I await the first terrorist attack resulting from Assanges crusade - hopefully it won't take place near you or your family.
Wikileaks won't have endangered anyone, only the crooks you elected into office have
Grenade, for all those opposed to free speech, accountability and trustworthy government
I would suggest that the first step in going against 'Bush and his cronies' might be to expose their misdemeanours to the world, no?
I find the idea of a 'terrorist attack' resulting from anything on Wikileaks to be midly laughable. Quite apart from the fact that the likelihood fo being hurt or killed in such an attack is minimal, even in those countries where such things are a matter of course (Palestine anyone?). If the US had spent even one percent of what has been pissed up against the wall fighting terrorism on such things as promoting road safety, more deaths would have been prevented. Arguably not starting The War Against Terror may have saved lives in and of itself.
Whilst I don't necessarily agree with leaking of details which might put people in danger, do you not think that if Assange can get his hands on this information and make it public, others might be equally well able to do so anyway? Do you not think that anyone who might attack another person based upon something on Wikileaks might have the means and motivation to be attacking innocent people anyway?
Personally, I haven't actually read any of the stuff on Wikileaks, it holds little interest. Historical evidence has already shown that governments do underhand things, there is no reason to think that the present incumbents in any country are any different.
There's a good troll
Has release of Wikileaks documents cost lives?
Both groups have lost it. Wikileaks are spewing out private infomation with no more reason than causing embarsiment. Who cares what a US diplomat thinks of the UK, and how is sights the US think are vital to them in the public interest? They have gone from doing good to being anachists and distructive.
4Chan and Anonymous have become playground bullys, and the flame heavy angry geek that pervaded 4Chan has leaked on to the rest of the web.
Its time both of them pulled back and thought about where they are going and how much longer they can stay a force for good going the way they are.
Unfortunatly as both are hive mind places they will head off the way of wikipedia, a good idea to start with but totaly out of control eventualy becomeing a joke.
I fully expect to be flamed and downvoted to death for this post...
Who cares what a US diplomat thinks of the UK
I don't even care how many mistresses my local (female) MP has.
Until that is their public statements disagree with their private actions.
Then I care.
Paypal / eBay et. al.
The problem with a "new" boycott paypal movement, is everyone who was going to boycott paypal, already has over earlier issues. e.g. the locking of the money. So nothing short of declaring paypal "financial terrorists" from 300 million people, is going to hurt paypal and by proxy eBay.
Pass the popcorn... again
This IS entertaining.
I must admit that..
I'm left with a feeling of disgust over the behaviour of paypal and others who seem to leap on any excuse to punish a single person.
Assange is not wikileaks - he is just the figurehead, and though I feel that wikileaks is behaving more like an attention whore than a legitimate organisation I also feel that if our 'system' of democracy actually worked then we would not have any need whatsoever of wikileaks,
Oh wow - I just checked the list of wikileaks mirrors (quote: 'Wikileaks is currently mirrored on 507 sites (updated 2010-12-06 14:02 GMT)'):
And here is some help to find alternatives to paypal:
Shame - I just bought Snow Crash from ebay using paypal, I don't really want to stop using it, but I'm starting to feel I must do something.
Maybe I'll use my collection of junk to build a TOR-based wikileaks mirror and hide it in my shed.
What is this nonsense
Wtf? Anarchic 4chan?
4chan = anarchist about as much as USA = turtles. Sure, they got some, but that doesn't mean the US is a turtle country.
Anyway, props to Anon on using their powers for good. I think it's funny how people whine about Anon's methods when they use them against corrupt scumbags entities.
Ahhhh, PayPal ...
But all the other unscrupulous/criminal activities that you, and the eBafia, facilitate on we simple peasants are OK?
“Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel”—Samuel Johnson.
eBay/PayPal/Donahoe: Dead Men Walking.
I remember when Anonymous used to pull stunts that at least raised a smile. Flash-mobbing in front of Scientology places in V For Vendetta masks and whatnot. These days, it's all just "Hmmm, let's 'protest' <insert cause here>. But what should we do?...... Hmmmm...... Oh, I know! Let's DDoS them!"
What's really interesting about all of this
Is how so many Wikileaks "supporters" are undermining Wikileaks reputation. One has to wonder how many are really agent provocateurs setting Wikileaks up.