Brown apologises for 'appalling' treatment of Turing

Cringeworthy

"So on behalf of the British government, and all those who live freely thanks to Alan’s work I am very proud to say: we’re sorry, you deserved so much better."

Why would you apologise for something you took no part in? It's cringeworthy. I am not responsible for anything any of my ancestors did and wont apologise for it. I would not expect anyone to apologise to me for something they themselves didn't do.

and then...

he can avoid making another Turing out of someone kinky.

Good?

so its good that Turing is recognised for what he achieved, he was just unfortunate to live at a time when being gay was illegal. No doubt in 30 years time a politician will apologise for the Brown Govt allowing the Americans to kidnap and torture British citizens in Guantanamo and other locations around the world even though it was illegal. Funny world.

Brown is going to be very busy

if he's going to apologise for all the bad things other people did in the past.

Let's keep the ball in motion .... and give IT Right Wicked Spin.

"First comes the apology; then comes the posthumous knighthood." ... By Andrew Moore Posted Friday 11th September 2009 09:58 GMT ...... and AI Turing Bletchley Park Foundation .... for New Post Modern Colossal Control Systems ...... in CyberIntelAIgent Security Offices.

What Better HQ for Enigmatic Future Intelligence in Transparent Steganography, would there be?

Great news.

Whilst it's easy to imagine this was done for some easy political point scoring, for the first time in many years I'll give Labour the benefit of the doubt on this one. The fact is, nothing stopped previous governments doing the same, but they did not.

The Labour government is abysmal, but finally after years of failing at everything they've done something right for once.

Pleasantly surprised

I must admit I didn't hold out much hope of seeing GB take such a bold stance on this, so I'm pleased to be able to commend him for once.

To answer your question...

>Proud to say sorry for an overdue apology? What does that even mean?

It means that an election is coming, why else would Brown actually respond positively to a No.10 website petition?

All very nice, but....

He's had *years* to apologise, as have his predecessors. It's a populist vote-grabber of the very worst sort. Depressingly, this will be trotted out every time his mob want to show they 'listen to people'. (And the other mobs would do the very same, I have no doubt. There's not much to choose from these days.)

Get on with a chuffing pardon and the belated honours that Turing deserves, and stop the posturing.

Re: Cringeworthy

Perhaps it's an apology on the behalf of the British State, which most certainly was in existence at the time. After all, he is the Prime Minister, and therefore is an appropriate representative of the State. I guess the Queen could also function as an appropriate apologee.

Paraphrased

"Turning was convicted of "gross indecency" in 1952 after BEASTY PORN WAS FOUND ON HIS HOME COMPUTER and forced to agree to experimental chemical castration in order to avoid prison. He was denied clearance to work on classified work for GCHQ after the conviction. Prevented from exercising his formidable intellect OR TEACH, OR BE A DOCTOR, OR EVEN A CARETAKER, OR HOLD ANY PUBLIC POST WHERE HE MIGHT COME INTO CONTACT WITH VULNERABLE YOUNG ADULTS, Turing fell into depression and committed suicide two years later in 1954, aged just 41."

If Brown wants to apologise for anything, he should apologise for putting Jacqui Smith in the Home Office. He should have had better judgement, but having made the mistake, he should have recognized that she couldn't tell 'cause' from 'correlation' and fired her.

I make the joke that Rapists have been found to dunk biscuits therefore dunking biscuits is the cause of rape, but this was the exact same trick used to lock people up for possession of beasty porn.

I for one am pleased

There's no need to get narky about the being proud to say sorry or make questioning digs at politicians individual motivations or sincerity. We asked our chief elected representative to make the apology on behalf of us as a nation, thank heavens we have moved on and the time is now appropriate and possible to do this. It's perfectly reasonable to be proud to be invited to do this and to celebrate the importance of this gesture with some sense of settling past wrongs to peace. Hey, I'm proud that we did this, and I'm sorry as a British citizen and human being that we made that wrong choice all those years ago.

@Sarah Bee - Re:Cringeworthy

Yes it is a gesture, but what is it symbolic of? What does the symbol mean?

Does it relate to Alan Turing or is it just patting ourselves on the back?

What does it say about the other people prosecuted under 'offences against the person' famous (e.g. Oscar Wilde) or unknown and uncampaigned for?

@Took no part in

The nation took part in it and like it or not, Gordon Brown is currently the mouth of the nation.

Re: Cringeworthy

So you wouldn't expect the CEO of a company to apologise to you if one their workers killed your family through negligence? The CEO didn't do it, but the organisation that they are responsible for did, but they shouldn't apologise, just the worker?

There is absolutely nothing cringeworthy about it. The PM is the CEO of the country and it is right that they take on the responsibility for the action of the 'company' that committed such a grossly negligent act.

Sarah Bee

It's a bad thing because it perpetuates the myth that we are some how responsible for what our parents did.

@Sarah Bee

Not the original poster but let me have a try.

My understanding of an apology is that it must be sincere and show remorse for the offending action.

All we can go on with politicians is context. We don't know them, whenever they speak, we don't know what they said before nor what they said immediately afterwards. So we have to look at context.

The political cartooning in almost every newspaper sets the context for Gordon Brown's sincerity, e.g., the one where he is weeping over Michael Jackson's coffin but ignoring the nineteen dead soldiers.

Or having the time to phone regarding Susan Boyle's health but being silent on Lockerbie.

Or inviting the England cricket team in for tea but silent on England's football team's qualification for the world cup, (noting that Scotland didn't make it)

There are many other context setting examples, different spaces, different worths, but one might not be too cynical to suggest that this is more about trying to appeal to a distinct group of voters (LGBT) that would be consistent witth the government's attempts to Balkanise politics in the UK, than having anything to do with Turing.

No one who knows anything about WWII or computer science doubts that Turing was anything other than a top geezer, nor gives a fig that he was a homosexual. Actually, his real problem was that he wasn't a "chap" If he had been a "chap" he could been free to be spying for Russia.

How was that?

He was treated appalingly...

... but then so were all "Gays" at that time. He was (currently) the most famous of those treated in such an appaling way.

An unreserved apology should be given to ALL those treated in such a way.

I'm just waiting (but not holding my breath) for Gordo to apolgise for the way NuLabour has treated the British public since coming to power.

Re: Cringeworthy

Thought I would get INB4 "It was my ancestors wot did it!". Oh well.

This happened very recently. Living relatives of mine may have been involved. We're not talking about gifting indigenous americans blankets full of smallpox - section 28 applied to almost all of us, and homophobia is still rampant in this country. The UK government is my representative as well as yours, and I am pleased that they have apologised for the behaviour of their very-near predecessors.

One has to be very careful about conflating issues here, but if the present UK government apologised for Bloody Sunday I for one would not sneer "You didn't do it!"

Only toadies apologise for things they didn't do

He's not apologising to [Turin] for [mistreatment], he's apologising to [Turin Lobby Group] for [Turin lobby group representation of Turins mistreatment].

There's a subtle distinction there.

If he then has to go on and commit a contrition to right this wrong, he will not be committing this contrition to [Turin] to fix [Turin mistreatment], he will be committing this contrition to [Turing Lobby Group] to fix [Story as presented by lobby group].

Perhaps you think the story presented by the lobby group is very close to fact, but I bet you haven't checked it personally, you'll have taken it at face value.

So to me, his apology can not fix any previous wrong, because Turin is dead and Brown was not PM then, but does show Brown is easily swayed by lobby groups with sob stories. So I'd expect all future lobbyists to recognize his weak point to sob stories and frame their lobbying in that way.

(snip) Perhaps I can sum it up in one sentence:

Only toadies apologise for things they didn't do.

How long...

...until Brown apologises for things the current government have done?

Knighthood petition?

I, like many of you, signed the petition

They make peers of the realm out of War-mongers, Politicians and Bureaucrats

Can we have another petition for someone who actually deserves it for a change?

@Dunncha

I doubt very much that it had anything to do with the Number 10 petition. We all know that is only there to make gullible troublemakers think they are making their voice heard whilst also allowing the government to claim that the numbers are actually so low (31000 may be a large number for these petitions but it is a very small proportion of the [internet facing] electorate) that the majority disagree with the statement in question.

rather it is as a reaction to the popular press, which we do know has the power to influence election results.

Different times, different sensibilities

First let me say that I think Turing was a genius and probably had a lot more to give BUT

He broke the law that was in force at the time was tried, convicted and that was a contributory factor in his suicide.

Do we expect an apology to every homosexual that was imprisoned ever? How about a word for Oscar Wilde? "Prison was unkind to Wilde's health and after he was released on 19 May 1897, he spent his last three years penniless, in self-imposed exile abroad and cut off from society and artistic circles."

How about an apology to everyone persecuted as witches?

The fact is that the apology cost nothing and allows Brown to prove he takes note of the petitions (yeah right) and he's a caring sharing sort of chap who saved the world and deserves another five years (yeah right).

I can just imagine the scene in the Cabinet Office while they discused the lowest impact highest profile petition to pander to. The Sir Humphreys must have been creaming their pinstripes when they came up with this one.

Cynical moi?

Stick him on a 5er

or a £20

What should he do?

All this negativeity over it. What should have been done? Should the government have ignored it? Refused to appologise? I need to know what you people think, but im not sure I want to. Im guessing this is just bile from people who will lash out about anything.

Im glad its come, not sure about the knight hood because it seems a little pointless, and would rather see the time spent trying to get more funding.

worthless

This must count as the most worthless thing anybody can receive... an apology from Gordon Brown

@northern monkey, Paul 4

I'm with him on that one. TO use your example: I would *not* expect the German government to have apologised. I would expect them to regret that it happened, but that is short of an official apology.

Paul: Ignore it, no. However an "apology" is different from expressing publicly a regret that something happened.

The government of the time may have been responsible, but just as Gordon Brown wasn't present in it at the time, neither was any of the rest of the Government.

I'm glad that a statement was made, and I'm glad that Turing's descendants take some comfort from it. I just, personally, don't feel it means anything.

Brown

Idiot.

Turing broke the law, that's all there is to it. That the modern fashion is different is irrelevant.