IT grad sues school over failed job hunt A US college graduate is suing her alma mater because she has been unable to find a job. Trina Thompson, 27, graduated in April from Monroe College in the Bronx, New York with a bachelor's degree in IT. That lofty educational achievement hasn't yet helped her land a job, and so she's suing the college for reimbursement of her …
Bachelor degrees are dime-a-dozen these days (I have 2). It took hands-on training at a trade college to get me a job (ironically at a University IT department who prefers to hire trade-school graduates as they actually have some relevant skills for the job-at-hand - we are infrastructure, not an IT research unit, which is where you would expect to find most engineers in any modern organisation).
If you want to design IT you get an engineer. If you want it installed and managed, that's technician's work. And most engineers turn down technician jobs as beneath their skillset (and expected pay grades). But there are a few orders of magnitude more tech jobs than engineering ones in IT these days.
Perhaps non of her prospective employers actually believe there is a college in the Bronx and thus assume it's all one of these online degree scams. Plus suing and getting in all the press probably isn't going to help when said employer Googles her.
<-- icon aimed squarely at her.
Some translations...
"for the stress I have been going through looking for a full-time job on my own," = "I expected to be given a job on a plate."
"They have not tried hard enough to help me." = "I ignored their advice."
"She put all her faith in them, and so did I." = "I am a pushy mother with a perfect daughter"
"The lawsuit is completely without merit." = "You will be laughed out of court."
"this case does not deserve further consideration." = FOAD
AC as they seem to have a legal scattergun approach.
...but why let a supersized sense of entitlement get in the way of burning sparse money reserves? Yeah, you could but some books and get into that lifelong learning business instead. Nah.
Reminds me of that guy at my place who was just good enough to generate garishly colored Excel pie charts complaining about his hard time getting a job and his upcoming re-liberation into the labour marketplace. He had the brilliant idea that State should take it on itself to guarantee a job for every dude with an "engineering degree". Why, sure.
Not sure if this is a private college or not and I can't be arsed to look it up right now, but assuming it is, probably part of her problem is that the Admissions People *COUGHS* SALES DROIDS *COUGHS*. They are usually blowing sunshine and flowers at any new people coming in, over promising their ability to deliver on A) A decent USEABLE education using Relevant Equipment in good working order (Not the IT Department's fault, the blame lies in greedy upper management-types who want a better paycheck to pad their back wallet than caring about the quality of education when 'good enough' will do.) and B) Promises of BIG MONEY when you graduate from their college. I can't tell you how many people I've gotten coming from these places that refuse to do basic tech work because they feel it is below them. Umm, Hello? Anyone home? This is actual Techwork. I'm not asking you to scrub the toilet with a toothbrush here. Maybe just replace a motherboard or hard drive here or there! Or maybe they just don't know how because they vegetated all the way through school and gradutated at the end....
That is probably what happened here, and with those unkeepable promises, she's rightfully upset, but I don't believe that she should be given her tuition back for a few reasons. First off, she attended classes, right? They have to pay their teachers and facilities somehow. 2) were the classes themselves sub-par? Did they prevent her from attending for some unspeakable reason? And many schools give an Audit seat to students if they want to sit back through a class they have taken and refresh themselves on it if they feel they didn't get enough of it the first time. It also seems that too many places are interested only in helping those *about* to graduate, not those who have already done so. Better to keep face with those actively at and about the school than those who are not.
Bottom line? Don't give her anything back but maybe take a veeeeeeeeery close look at the promises being made by their sales drones and find out which ones aren't being ethical about things.
I'll get my coat.
When I came out of college, I had nothing handed to me. I could have did with this idiot did, I could have did what most Americans do, sue the bastards. Instead, I decided to become a productive member of society by starting my own business. I have better hours, I am happier, and my business is doing great even though it took years to become as good as it is.
It isn't your God given right to make a lot of money. You have to do something about it.
A university education isn't even worth the paper the degree is written on, and if cases like this highlight the real low value of Universities then more power to her.
If she gets her cash back she is already ahead of the game. And her time was taken up by this nonsense, so a few thousand on top seems completely reasonable.
At no point in my 12 year IT history has my GPA ever even been mentioned and if someone did ask I'd tell them to get F&*(ed. A degree is a degree is a degree, They're all crap anyway.
Almost every new graduate I've ever hired has been totally worthless in a business setting, it takes months to even get the crawling.
College today is pants.
Besides a B- isn't that bad, actually it's a bit above average for community colleges.
At the risk of sounding age-ist, I am sad to day that this is so typical of my Generation Y colleagues. The prevailing attitude seems to be:
1) I have a god given right to be employed
2) Said employment has to be incredibly stimulating and cool
3) I can quit any time I want, and expect to find another job within a few weeks
4) I have no need to show loyalty, hard work or reasonableness as my employer will probably screw me over anyway
Having never lived through economic tough times before, young people have not really been exposed to the harsh reality of the real world. If anything positive can come out of the recent crisis, perhaps it is the a few home truths will be laid bare.
While she's probably going overboard, I can understand her point to an extent.
Manny colleges etc go on recruiting drives and tell prospective students that all their grads get employment and it's a guaranteed job.
Student graduates but doesn't get job. Perhaps the college has oversold and are not living up to their promises.
I know this is a generalisation (and I'm going to sound like an old fart), but GenY-ers give me the pits. As an IT Contractor, I have had contacts with many a placement agency and most of them report the same attitude: "I have a degree, give me a high-paying glamorous job where I don't have to do anything". <sigh>
The question on the table should be: did the Uni/College/Whatever provide a proper level of education? Not, you'll notice, what the girl's grades where - there are idiots in every class - but whether the *classes* were up to par. If so (and I suspect that they were satisfactory), then she can whistle for her money - from the mother's quote, she sounds like a kid who is likely to blame everyone but herself for her short-comings. (and "they did not help me enough"? Since when are colleges in the Job Placement industry anyway?)
Me, I follow the 100-20-1 rule for graduates: 100 applications, 20 interviews, 1 job. Luckily, I've never had to go beyond 20-5-1 yet. ^_^
I know, the young lady might have been a touch naive. However, I would also not be surprised to find that the "school" (read: educational business) had been represented by _salespeople_ who made all kinds of promises.
This type of situation happened to me: a salesdork from a very well-known IT skills training organisation flatly _guaranteed_ me a job in exchange for signing away a few bucks on a course.
Cash changed hands, goods were consumed. But what was the basis of the sale itself: a forthcoming job offer, or an education? I suspect it was that ambiguity that lies at the heart of the case.
Note: check out the Monroe website: it's strongly oriented towards the "employment" line. Here's just a smattering of words from their "about" page: "successful future", "career-oriented", "real-world experience", "lead students to employment" -- and that's just from the opening paragraph.
My university promised me help finding a job too, but after I graduated (read: stopped paying tuition) they didn't exactly offer any. That didn't stop me from finding one, even though I graduated in a time and place where unemployment was even higher than today. I just had to put in a bit effort, all while still working in the camera shop that paid for my ramen noodles and beer through uni, and then move to a different state to actually take this job.
I can mention that where I am now there's actually a shortage of many IT-related professionals, but of course I'm far away from where this girlie is currently living.
And about today's grads; my previous company employed a few. They spent most their working day telling the rest of us that they knew they were better than others, which was quite amusing since they did nothing to prove it.
And they all thought they were grossly underpaid even though they made pretty good wages compared to what the newly educated had to accept back in my days...
Yeah, yeah, I know I'm over 40, but at least when I was young we didn't think ourselves so darned special just because we were born, and we didn't expect a starring role in our first job. Today's youngsters need to realize the Earth would continue rotating without them, and experience and skill still counts for something.
And judges can be quite mean when dismissing ridiculous lawsuits.
I found my university education (mostly) quite useful out in the real world. Sure, one should expect to need to learn more afterwards (nothing wrong with graduate/trainee roles) but it's nice to have a leg up.
So I'm wondering where all this degree hate is coming from? Is there something wrong with the learning institutions of the US of A? Or are you all grizzled old vets for whom academic qualifications mean nothing compared to decades upon decades of experience in certain fields?
At any rate, litigation for unemployment is daft. Unless one went to one of those dodgy IT "schools" who like to guarantee a job. But methinks those "organisations" are smart enough to pull their head in when the economy is in a state like this.
I graduated from college with an MIS degree in 1997, a BOOMING IT industry and I had been programming since 3rd grade. It took me 3 months of ground pounding to find the shittiest job for not a lot of pay. I worked it like the cotton fields for almost 2 years, then suddenly, things got a whole lot better.
Having said that, now a days, I wouldn't want to enter this job market with zero experience.
Ah, Bingo, finally someone said that.
Education is presently oriented toward "employment". I hate to be blunt, but when it fails in this regard the recipient should be entitled to some redress.
Yeah, I know that the real target of University education does not sound sellable. My dad (who taught in Unis for most of his working life) had a saying: "The university diploma is not a document which certifies that you have learned chemistry, or math or anything for that matter. Never was, never will be. It is a document which certifies your _GENERAL ABILITY_ to learn. It shows that you are capable of learning material to a specific level of difficulty and using it to get a job done"
This message unfortunately is not something which a sales dork (which is what Uni admission departments are nowdays) can convert into applicants and from there to cash flow. So they lie about employment orientation and employability.
To make the matter worse, the actual study material after that is modified to make the kids employable as per the demands of the current day. This makes them instantly unemployable tomorrow, because instead of being trained to learn and self-learn they are trained to a specific employability. There is an extremely good description on this in Azimov's "Profession" and frankly it should be made a mandatory first year reading material in all engineering schools.
While I have no sympathy for the lady itself (sorry sub-3 point average is a FAIL), someone needs to take Universities to the task and make them stop misselling education. That, and actually educating kids instead of satisfying the HR buzzword bingo grep fetish.
Yes you may have a good job now; yes you may have a good paycheque, but how long did it take you guys to reach this stage without a degree - degrees speed up the time it takes to get a meaningful and rewarding job - if you have two applicants, one with a degree, one without - you're going to pick the guy with the degree for the obvious reason that he's better educated (assuming they have the same experience).
With regards to the story, what a bunch of thunderc*nts - her, and her mother - you don't get jobs handed to you on a plate - you have to go out, work hard, send your CV off to dozens of companies, and then maybe, JUST FUCKING MAYBE, you get offered a job - clearly these two are just adding to the American steriotype of "I'm a Yank, therefore I'm the best - I want it NOW and if I don't get it, I'm going to SUE!".
(N.B. Note the use of "steriotype" - I'm not saying all of you over the pond are like that - just most of you... :D )
Virtually word for word what I was going to say. In my first job I was asked if I knew FORTRAN, I didn't so the boss said, "There's a library on the first floor, go get a book and learn it". But then I had a real Physics and Electronics degree which shows an ability to analyze, solve and think rather than an IT degree which basically means you can add up in binary.
As for the 100+ applications before getting a job offer, before leaving university I had five offers but I reckon this was because I only applied for five jobs. Ever since my ratio has been at least 1-1-1 and in some cases 0-0-1, think headhunting and word of mouth.
This girl's story shows that if, education wise, you do go for the easy option than at least get a good grade.
Everyone is allowed to be uneducated and naive at the start of a degree. At the end you should have realised that the claims of walking into a job were sales bullshit. Only the blind could ignore the fact that their friends in who left before them have not walked straight into jobs.
Perhaps she's one of those people who haven't figured out yet that effort and reward are not related, and that 'results and reward' is closer to the mark.
Still, nowadays a degree only gets your foot on the ladder. Anyone with less experience than that is really fucked.
Deliver sub-par results (her grades), then sue.
Its the same with large IT corporations, especially here in the UK. I wont mention any company names but IT is generally done by Indians now and the only IT jobs for westerners is making unfair contracts for clients then suing them to get the money! (NHS IT project get out payment to Fujitsu was nearly 900 million - yes it was a government project so no doubt a nightmare client, but its not like they didn't know that when they tendered!!!!).
She would definitely have a much better moral high ground position if her grades were better though..
She is obviously crap..
I left school at 16, did an MCSE (in NT4) then used that to go and find a job, paid for 3 Cisco Certs, and now I'm a Senior Network Engineer, I'm 27 too...
It's not all about peices of paper from some crappy collage... it's about your performance.. if you are good enough that will shine through, if you are an R-Tard like this bint, then you are doomed for a life of monotany and mediocracy...
Epic Fail love.. Trully Epic.. Good luck in finding a job anywhere now!...
At 27, she's old enough to have seen cycles of ups-and-downs - when the internet bubble burst, she was 19, at the 9/11 attacks and market crash afterwards she was 21, and we're a full ten months into the current semiapocalyptic disaster.
Post-Internet-bubble, it took three years for the IT job market to recover. In 2001, 80 pages of a certain german 220-page IT magazine had job ads - a year later, it was two (!) out of 180 pages (and no, that wasn't all due to every employer suddenly going online-only).
IT jobs have, between October'08 and about May'09, scarce as a real nugget in a stream full of fool's gold. That's two or three nuggets now, but the bonanza isn't in sight.
Has she lived with her head stuck fast in the sand for the last 18 months ?
Three months looking ? That's the time you spend looking during boom times - because that's what it takes to do due diligence to sift through ads, write down own plans & ideas, ponder the necessities of life and, not the least, write targeted, specific applications. A Winword template letter "I'm G3 (great greedy grad) and just what you need" will, at best, end up as a humorous note on some HR department's whiteboard.
If the college really was stupid enough to have their ads / contracts worded in such a way that they were, in the eyes of the law, a post-graduation employment guarantee, then I feel sorry for them. As far as the girl goes, hope her future sees her rotting away as Z-grade celebrity touring B-set talkshows ranting publicly about how unfair it is that not everyone has happiness piled over them effortlessly.
IT- Intelligence Tanked ...
If I am not mistaken, as it can happen at times. In the US the GPA is done on a 4.0 scale not a 3.0 so 2.7 is a pretty miserable rate. And according to a quick search on the Monroe College webstie which you have linked to it has GPA mentioned up to 3.75 so an A would be 4.0 and B- would at worse be around 3.25 if that low. I had trouble finding work after completing my Networking/Programming course and I got a 3.9 GPA.
Harsh times, mediocre GPA, and you expect to get a job, should have tried a lot harder in school.
One sure way of convincing a corporation NOT to hire you is to position yourself as a troublemaker and willing to sue at the slightest hint of dissatisfaction. This ignorant little squirt has just committed her own personal version of corporate suicide. Who in their right mind would ever hire someone who has already filed suit and never even had a job? Not me brother, I don't need that kind of attitude no matter how good an IT person she is. She may be a whiz-band IT type, but when it comes to understanding the world about her she's a dismal failure if this stunt is a valid indicator.
May as well become a teacher, they aren't listen to by anybody and they keep getting paid. I know....I wuz one for a time.
If you're going to be dumb; you'd better be tough.
Those with a sense of entitlement and desire not to do any work for as long as possible are likely to study for a degree. But that doesn't mean that everyone who has studied for a degree has a sense of entitlement and wants not to do any work for as long as possible. A implies B does not mean that B implies A. And that doesn't suddenly start being true just because you weaken yourself to correlations.
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