Who snapped first?

@the cops

Up shit creek in a barbed wire canoe!

Wrong !!!

"For their part, the authorities will argue that they have a duty to keep tabs on suspicious characters pointing cameras at sensitive buildings, and still need CCTV and cam-toting cops to prevent public disorder and bring those responsible for justice."/

Er no, it gives the police more reason not to allow the public own cameras, have freedom of speech etc etc. It''s incidents like this that erode our freedom not cause blushes amoungst the authorities.

So

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

Seriously, the police should never question anyone taking pictures of them in public, there is simply no excuse for it in unless they admit that they are here to oppress rather than protect.

Mine's the one with an original copy under the arm.

I would have done the same

I've seen the footage like most people. Some people are sticking up for him claiming he was doing nothing and was innocent, but in my opinion, it looks like he's deliberately walking slowly in front of the officer trying to piss him off. If he was, I'd have shoulder charged him out of the way too. Just a shame the guy who did it was wearing a police uniform.

@Wrong!!!

"It''s incidents like this that erode our freedom not cause blushes amoungst the authorities."

Do you actually believe the crap you just typed?

It's incidents like this that show why such freedoms are necessary, so that we can hold our public servants to account.

As for "blushes", I'd hope that a police officer who may have been responsible for an innocent man's death would do a little more than blush.

One can only hope

If it turns out that this attack was unprovoked (and from the evidence seen so far, it looks entirely possible) that the guardian of the peace that attacked the man with the baton and then pushed him to the ground (while his hands were in his pockets) is charged with manslaughter.

Only then will I believe that there is still some justice in the UK.

question to the moderatrix

Is it me or when we're talking about UK law enforcement on these forums, we see much more AC posting than otherwise... If verified, it kind of proves that the tactics work in reducing free speech, doesn't it? Let's just hope that vulture central is not raided to lift the veil...

remember hillsborough

The Sun have a bit of a rep for supporting police who may be in a bit of bother - Hilsborough springs to mind....

Watch the IPCC do a fearless job of investigating this tragic event, just like De Menezes, Babar Ahmad, Harry Stanley, Christopher Alder, Roger Slyvester and so on.

My favourite bit will be when the IPCC ignore the video evidence as the witnesses are too subjective unlike the 'professional' police who at this point are colluding/conferring to write their identical statements

Mines the one with the standard "procedures will be changed & lessons have been learnt" B***s**t logo.

Sad serious of events

It is more than probable that a blow to the leg or indeed any part of the body could induce brusing, what is less well known is that it can also cause blood clots and they can cause strokes or indeed heat attacks. If that was the cause then its a sad serious of events, indeed any death is.

The police probably under alot of work stress (ie having to work very focused for more than 5 minutes) could of seen some chap walking infront of them and with his hands in his pockets could of been deemed as an obstruction. indeed if he had headphones on he wouldn;t of heard a thing. One should also consider that it may of been somewhat noisy so any if at all shouts or comments from the police to move out of there way probably wouldn't of been heard.

You can easily see how they would deem such a person after a emotionaly long day as someby being clever and slowing them down by walking in a lackluster manner infront of them and as such can see how they could of taken the action they did, and for it to pan out as it did.

One thing though I'm sure on is that they certainly did not wish this innocent gentlemans death or indeed wish any injury upon him. But that dosn't distract from the fact from a person deing.

The only concelation we can find currently is that some of the police involved have come forward soon as this issue was brought to light and that there was already a investigation into the circumstances leading upto the untimely death.

Either way I'm probably feeling as sorry for the family as well as those involved, fairly sure neither wished for this.

If you've got nothing to hide...

...RUN! RUN! They're coming after you!

The truth will never come out of course, but at least there was a chance of the innocent (for he was only walking home from work, so says the Met themselves) victim might have avoided his fatal heart attack. Imagine if the cops had their much craved tasers, then Mr Tomlinson might not have gotten the chance to collapse a second time under his own power.

"Verbal: Fuggin' cops"

@AC 15:22

"Er no, it gives the police more reason not to allow the public own cameras, have freedom of speech etc etc. It''s incidents like this that erode our freedom not cause blushes amoungst [sic] the authorities."

So we should let the police get away with it if they kill someone so they don't take our cameras away? Huh? That doesn't make any sense to me.

<- Or am I being retarded..?

YouTube

If passive resistance worked in India, imagine what live updates to a streaming video website from a mobile phone being waved at a Police officer wielding a baton can do?

Cause some good laughs in offices across the world most likely.

I am supremely confident...

that the authorities investigating this will leave no stone unturned and no avenue of investigation untried until these coppers are found not guilty.

Phhht :-(

And the Police Officers response when interviewed was...

"No Comment" - as advised by my solicitor.

Makes for a swift and complete investigation.

Unfortunately, it lets down the vast majority of police officers who try, in the face of a public that (in some areas) has an unhealthy distrust and many influential management members that have little but contempt for the people they serve and manage, to do a good job.

I hope there will be a conviction soon

So this foreign terrorist (fund manager=same thing) illegally photographed one of our fine boys in blue who was either in fear of his life from a vicious football hooligan / helping an elderly gentlemen out of the way of vicious protesters (depends if you a sun/telegraph reader).

I hope they get this scum off our streets soon.

Sorry but...

... I'm with the Police on this one.

From what I saw of the video evidence, as an "innocent passerby" maybe if he was passing by a bit quicker he might not have attracted the attention of the police in the first place. Could he perhaps have been deliberately dawdling along with his hands in his pockets while the police were trying to clear the area in order to obstruct & wind them up? Surely not...

Now we can be absolutely certain

... that personal use of Cameras will in future require a license if used in a public place. Violators will have their equipment confiscated, their computers seized [for evidence], and their DNA and prints taken because all of this will be a cautionable offence.

Remember, you read it here!

Copter - cos they watch us be we're not allowed to watch them

The Met experiences panopticon blowback

I have just gotta say "Panopticon Blowback" is just the best phrase about the police state that I have ever heard.

Somehow I will have to work it into a conversation.

Right to protest

It appears that if you want to take part in a peaceful protest in Britain today, you should expect to be beaten and intimidated by heavily armed, masked police. What amazes me is even the liberal media seemed to be scared into making apologies for the police conduct during the G20 protests, until the footage of this poor man appeared.

Predictable

"The Sun's pictures were accompanied by claims that Tomlinson was drunk, had been pushed aside after refusing to move out of the path of a police van, and did not seem to be intent on heading home."

I've been waiting for this to come out. They did the same thing when de Menezes was shot. Release enough little rumours and slurs on the character of the dead bloke to ensure that 51% or more of Daily Mail readers conclude that "well, he may not have done that but he probbly did sumfink else so he deserves what he got".

A title is required.

"...their argument will be strengthened if and when they produce their own footage of the events leading up to Tomlinson's death. So far they haven't."

Quite. The footage and pics will likely have been "accidentally" deleted, or subject to some creative archiving.

Hopefully it won't matter, given the evidence that *did* make it to light.

Trust?

Seems the issue will be trust after this, perhaps the CCTV systems and Police body/hat cam's will also be evidence in this case...What ever the truth, more and more people don't trust the Police.

Still THEY (H.O./MET Comissioner) don't trust the MET with TASER's, with good reason maybe?

Hidden Cameras

When people are filming something, they need to have a second recording, or even an additional hiddden camera. Perhaps someone has invented a camera that automatically sends all its shots to email, or a website or something?

Then, when the "autorities" require the hand over or deletion of pictures, the world will actually still get a copy of whatever they intend to hide.

Isn't this just a suggestion to the terrorists how to carry out theis plans?

No, Terrorists wiill not even be noticed - usually because they are not even there!

France Info

On Thursday 2nd April I was listening to Radio "France Info" as I drove past Geneva towards Lyon.

France Info mentioned the "death of a protester" during the G20 protest confrontation. I retuned away from FM to 198KHz as this is the extreme edge of Radio4 LW reception, listened to news, NOTHING. I then started to become surprised, there was no item on the next 648KHz BBC WS news either. As far as I can tell, the UK only noticed that there was a death with the Sunday papers, well after the G20 'Gordie-the-hero' event. Of course, I may have recollected things wrongly, but there might just be a faint whiff of "Media Strategy Ratified" and UK news sources holding off for a few days????????

Errrmmm....

I for one welcome our heavily padded baton wielding overloads.... it seems safest.

Must remember these defences in court:

. he looked a bit brown and I had to run after him.

. he was a bit drunk and uncooperative.

Can't see those holding up if you weren't wearing a uniform at the time.

Coat - Mine's the one with a secret memo just waiting to spill out the pocket...

Re: CCTV

"According to the IPCC none of the CCTV cameras in the area were switched on at the time. And I thought people were being too cynical when they said this would happen."

That's strange. I seem to remember the news channels at the time reporting how the police were using CCTV and stuff to keep track of the protests. It was more than a passing reference; more a featured part of the on-going news story. They even had a correspondent reporting live from some sort of control centre where the police were monitoring the protests.

Or did I just dream all that?

Suddenly an important aspect of 1984 has become a lot more credible to me. I must remember, it's Eurasia we're at war with...

@ AC re Riot Police

"Those rioters were wrong in the first place, right?"

They weren't Rioters.

There were a small minority who were causing trouble, but the vast majority were people who feel they had a genuine grievence.

The problems started when the Stazi decided to use "Kettling" which basically means surrounding the protesters, closing in on them from all sides and not letting then move for 6 hours.

And at all you Fuc*tards who say he got what he deserved, watch the video, that is an assault, pure and simple.

There can be no defence for someone who is supposed to uphold law and order behaving like that.

The police are trained to cope with provocation so it doesn't matter what the guy did or said.

If he needed to be arrested, then the officer should have used the proper procedure, which normally involves walking up to the guy, getting hold of him and slapping the cuffs on.

If he resists, you and the dozen friends around you, use pressure points to subdue him and get him to a position where you can control him.

Twatting him across the back of the legs with a metal baton, shoulder charging him in the back, then running away so you can't be identified must be a new addition to the Police operations manual.

I'm not saying the copper definitely killed Ian Tomlinson, that is for a coroner to decide, but I am saying the officer assaulted him.

The police can only work with the cooperation of the public and if this guy isn't at least charged with assault we have just proved that we haven't moved on from the dark days of the SPG and Blair Peach in 30 years.

My prediciton for the future

Had it been a member of the public doing the pushing he would have been arrested and processed, possibly remanded or bailed with conditions not to talk to witnesses etc.

What the police do is suspend him and leave him free to work with his colleagues to concoct a "story" which will be that the victim had whilst off camera been abusive and told them he wasnt moving off so despite repeated warnings he was "helped along". This will be argued as a reasonable response as the officers in question where en route to assist some trapped colleagues. The first thing that should have happened is that he was arrested and bailed to prevent the above, but thats not how the police like to do it.

There wont be any police footage or CCTV available as despite the vast number of cameras and police snappers in the area they just didnt take any.

Even if some comes to light and its known about it will be "lost" or "damaged".

Having had the joys of making a complaint against the police in the past I can attest to there inability to keep hold of evidence on an epic scale. There ability to concoct corroborating statements (in my case using time travel!) etc etc ad infinitum

Black helicopters, with yellow bits on