World of Warcraft: 'The crack cocaine of the computer world' Is World of Warcraft as addictive as crack cocaine? Some say yes. Others are too busy playing World of Warcraft to answer. The former opinion is given by a Swedish youth organization that works with addictions. The org says it's releasing a new report labeling the online swords n' sorcery excursion as "the most dangerous game …
[If only there had been some sort of authority to look over the boy. {who)... raised him for 15 years, brought the computer, and payed (sic) for his WoW account every month].
It's easy to say this if you havn't parented a teem-ager or fought addiction. Addiction subverts the addict's consciousness for the purpose of getting more of their WoW-drug-of-choice. People are pretty crafty when they're really motivated.
You can try to cut off his access at home, but can you quit your job, go without sleep and stand guard 24/7? Can you follow him to friends' houses? Sit with him in school? You have to think about it as if the addiction really was to crack cocaine. Except computers are everywhere and they're not illegal.
My kids have only a mild case, for which I'm grateful.
Dedicated, hard-working, intelligent engineers work long hours and earn big money trying to make the WoW experience as compelling and self-reinforcing as possible. Not to put too fine a point on it, they are setting out to create addiction. They learn and study the techniques of creating addiction, though they call it something else. It's how WoW and all the other online games make money.
You may claim that WoW is only entertainment, like a good book (ok, like a comic book with a weak plot and 1-dimensional characters). And it is. But the medium permits an infinitely long comic book that puts you and your peeps in the action. The only limit to how much you can consume is how long you can stay awake. It breaks the limits imposed by more traditional media that act to prevent overconsumption.
I predict that within 10 years we will regulate this medium to limit consumption for public safety. Sounds Orwellian, I know, but if we keep getting better at making the gaming experience self-reinforcing, we won't have a choice.
Engineers *can* do their job too well.
[If only there had been some sort of authority to look over the boy. Perhaps someone with the wisdom of age from who's loins he could have sprung, then raised him for 15 years, brought the computer, and payed for his WoW account every month].
QFT. Fucking lazy parents that don't give enough of a shit about their kids to TALK to them or regulate them. Rules and boundaries are good for people you frelling loonies!
Ahem. I digress.
Wow should become Wot a Pile of Sh**e, they can has no purpose, requires no immediate skill just the inability to do something with your life and extrememly depe pockets....why people PAY EXTRA a month to play a game is beyond me, granted for pay for an internet connection when playing the likes of coounter-strike, command and conquer etc online but at least you only have to pay 1 time for the game itself whereas WoW (and other MMORPGs) have you pay a subscription...and for what? take 1 look at Blizzards profits and you'll see stupid amounts generated by WoW...some call it good business, i can it ripping off.
Flame Icon? I'm playing Pyro...frying me some Scouts in TF2 thanks to the damn Scout Update
ACTUALLY they have parental controls to limit playtime on WOW so if your kids playing too long it immediately boots them off for however long they want so there is no need to regulate their wow intake 24 hours a day because Blizzard does it for them if they bother setting it up.
Now back to equipping my epic robe
.... as you Battle to Save its Systems?
"They learn and study the techniques of creating addiction, though they call it something else. It's how WoW and all the other online games make money." .... By Anonymous Coward Posted Friday 27th February 2009 20:38 GMT
And there is the demon which controls all you pussies, hiding in full sight, as bold as an ancient hooker and to which you are hopelessly addicted and therefore easy prey/carrion to its myriad reinforcing vulnerabilites which destroy/self-destruct from deep within aspirant hosts ........ the perverting and subverting love of [excessive] money.
Go on, Deny it for to Prove it true.
PS Don't shoot the Messenger whever the Fault is Lodged and Deeply Embedded in Others in Denial. That just wouldn't be Cricket, old Boy, there's a Good Chap. :-)
Might I suggest dDeep Therapy Sessions and Cyber-Counter-IntelAIgents 42AIdD Controls in Disaster Recovery. :-)
[You can try to cut off his access at home, but can you quit your job, go without sleep and stand guard 24/7? Can you follow him to friends' houses? Sit with him in school? You have to think about it as if the addiction really was to crack cocaine. Except computers are everywhere and they're not illegal. By Anonymous Coward Posted Friday 27th February 2009 20:38 GMT]
Uh, since WoW subscription is not free, you CAN actually cut it off by stop paying. If you care enough, you can even install parental control programs on all the computers that specifically blocks WoW, just in case the kid has other ways of keeping his account current. If you totally ban it at home, how much time can the kid spend at his friend's house playing WoW? His friends will get sick of him in no time if all he does there is play WoW on THEIR computer.
I dislike WoW, but I dislike ignorant and irresponsible parents a lot more.
"It's easy to say this if you havn't parented a teem-ager or fought addiction. Addiction subverts the addict's consciousness for the purpose of getting more of their WoW-drug-of-choice. People are pretty crafty when they're really motivated.
You can try to cut off his access at home, but can you quit your job, go without sleep and stand guard 24/7? Can you follow him to friends' houses? Sit with him in school? You have to think about it as if the addiction really was to crack cocaine. Except computers are everywhere and they're not illegal."
So your argument is that because your kid Timmy can still go over to his friend Johnny's house a play there, that you, as the parent, are absolved of the responsibility to do anything about it in your own home? Your argument is that if you can't stop him 100% of the time, that you have no obligation to stop him AT ALL. That's like saying, "well son, I can't stop you from having sex with a hooker at a cheap motel, therefore I'll condone you having sex with a hooker upstairs in your room!"
Ridiculous. And we wonder why the government thinks they need to be everyone's nanny...
Here's the deal: If you as a parent think something is bad for your kids, then you have an obligation to take reasonable measures to prevent your kid from doing it. It's true that you can't prevent it 100% of the time, but isn't ANY reduction of the "bad" behavior better than sitting around with your thumb up your ass?
"they can has no purpose"
Ok, ok, YES you can has chezburger!
"requires no immediate skill"
Probably about as much skill as it takes to be any good at Half Life, methinks...
"just the inability to do something with your life"
That's quite the generalization. I play WoW and I'm a productive member of society. You're just being silly.
"extrememly depe pockets"
15 USD a month is "depe [sic] pockets" ??
"why people PAY EXTRA a month to play a game is beyond me"
And of course, something being beyond you means that it doesn't make sense at all, right? Or could it be that the $15 a month pays for server maintenance and ongoing game development, as well as shareholder profits, no doubt. Welcome to capitalism.
By the way, you DO realize that SOMEONE has to pay to keep your favorite TF2 server running...right?
Get a clue, man, and for Pete's sake, learn to spell...
Who wears the pants in your family?
Pull the damned plug... it's not THAT hard... and it's YOUR responsibility, not the game designers'. It's only hard because your kid is used to doing whatever the hell he/she wants and you just caving after 3 hours of negotiating with them, with the vane hope that if you can just tell him the right thing, then he'll magically agree with your wiser position, and change his own behavior. Well, unfortunately, that's not how the mind of a teenager works. When they want something, that's it... they just want it, and it's your job to take it the hell away if it becomes an addiction.
"You can try to cut off his access at home, but can you quit your job, go without sleep and stand guard 24/7? Can you follow him to friends' houses? Sit with him in school? You have to think about it as if the addiction really was to crack cocaine. Except computers are everywhere and they're not illegal."
If you think your 15-year old kid is addicted to crack cocaine that is exactly what you are supposed to do if you think that is what it takes. If you have spend fifteen years of your life, a hundred grand or up (depending on your standard of living (and currency)) on the bugger and you learned to love him in addition to the biological love hardwired into you, then yes, you do whatever it takes. In fact you do it regardless if you think it is what it takes or not, you do in just in case it is what it takes.
In addition. It may be that you have to think about as if the addiction was to crack cocaine, even though people that treat addictions in general usually say that it doesn't fit any addiction pattern they know of. It still may be, and as you say computers are everywhere and they're not illegal. So it can be hard to control, except that it would be more like a drug that it takes five hours and up to shoot/snort/smoke/eat/drink/taste/lick.
You say it easy to say if you never have parented teenagers yourself. Yes, you are right, it is easy to say. However, that doesn't make it wrong or impossible to do. I am sorry, but if you can't account for where your kid is and what he is doing for the most part of the day I am deeply worried. If you can't account for where he is for so long that he manage to get sleep deprived and suffer from starvation, then I really do hope you neither have any experience with raising teenagers, and that you just made up that bit where you mention your supposed kids.
Ok smart non-parents...You wipe your computers clean of WoW. You close the account. Sorted, right?
Nope. Your kid can get a prepaid debit card to pay for an account. As pointed out, it's only $15/mo. He can play at friends. He can hang out at internet cafes. Remember, this person is approximately as smart as you are, and *all* they want to do is play WoW.
Your kid lies. He says he's doing something else, hanging with his friends, studying. You have to catch each lie and give it consequences. And you're biased toward believing him, because he is your own child. Yeah, you can punish him, but remember, he's *motivated*.
Whatcha gonna do if they defy you openly? They're big, physically. Want to lock them up? Hit them? This kind of parenting is frowned upon, and sometimes they hit back. You send them to their room, and for the next few hours, they aren't playing. Gonna stay up all night to keep 'em from sneaking out of the house? Gonna stay home from work to keep 'em at home? You have less free time than your kid does, even if you are a perfect parent. If it was actually drugs, you could get in-patient treatment at a rehab center. Not so many opportunities if the activity isn't illegal.
Ultimately you can throw him out to teach him a lesson, but this is the "nuclear option" of parenting. It implies complete failure.
Yeah, there are parents who can't handle even a mild case of playing too much. They need to be, uh, corrected. But even a really terrific parent will struggle with addiction. To anything.
At some point, I Beta's World of WarCrack. And I'm glad I got out of it before all the -teen-year-olds got on it.
OTOH, I have now sold my soul to LotR Online, which is made in the way World of WarCrack should have been made. Awesome visuals, less-repetitive quests, and no 1337|<1d5 spamming the channels.
Mine's the Ranger robe with the stack of Longbottom Leaf in the pocket.
Right, let me make this very clear; if your kids die of starvation due to excess WoW, then that is a sign that you shouldn't have kids again. EVER. You have failed as a parent.
Simple as.
If you can't control them outside your home, fine. Only so much you can do. But you can remove WoW from the home PC, and if they don't come home, just a call to the police saying you think your son Timmy is at Johnnys house smoking marijuana is all it takes to get them [both] out of there and give them the fright of thier life when they get a night in the holding cells with Big Jock who likes lithe young men.....peer pressure for getting their mates in deep shit too will have far more effect than you shouting at them ever will - if Johnnys parents understand, they won't argue....but according to your logic, it is IMPOSSIBLE to stop a child PLAYING A COMPUTER GAME so maybe they won't...
Seriously, sort your life out, you complete pussy - they are your kids, if you have to give them a psychological kick in the face to sort them out, then do it - my parents did that to me a long time ago [weed and booze - far more dangerous in every respect] and I'm far, far better for it.
You fucking failure.
Steven R
...you don't have to have kids to get an insight into how a teenagers mind works. We've all been there, and anyone who hasn't been addicted to something hasn't lived.
So that isn't a suitable rebuttal of any argument.
In all seriousness, IMHO people like AC-Addiction are a major part of the problem with society today; fucking apologists for everything someone under the age of 21 does.
Tragic really.
Steven R
But what's to be expected . . . especially from addicts and Kids??!!
I have read all the comments . .. all the way down to '@mycho By David S' . . . at the time of my post . . . BUT . . . the one I read, read again and re-read many times was the one entitled:
"Addiction" and posted by AC @ 00:37 GMT
My reply is from the heart and may make for interesting reading, perhaps even amusing but remember . . . it is from my heart (as well as my head). Feel free to read on . . . or not . . . that is your choice!
1. "Ok smart non-parents...You wipe your computers clean of WoW. You close the account. Sorted, right?"
I am a parent and a grandparent . . . Wiped many computers clean in my time but not of WoW but I'll stand by your story for the moment. Sounds reasonable to "close the account" and being "Sorted, right?"
Who the fuck opened the "account" in the first place??!!
2. "Nope. Your kid can get a prepaid debit card to pay for an account. As pointed out, it's only $15/mo. He can play at friends. He can hang out at internet cafes. Remember, this person is approximately as smart as you are, and *all* they want to do is play WoW."
Really??!! How does any kid get one of those without money?? Sorry, my mistake, he can get the money, play at friends and hang out at Internet cafes because your a fucking lame excuse of a parent who can't be arsed doing what you should be doing as a parent and sit on your lardy arse saying: "You want what? Oh, It's in my wallet, take what you want / need.". BTW Your kids smartness is ahead of your proximity . . . don't fucking insult MY INTELLIGENCE with your STUPIDITY!!
3. "Your kid lies. He says he's doing something else, hanging with his friends, studying. You have to catch each lie and give it consequences. And you're biased toward believing him, because he is your own child. Yeah, you can punish him, but remember, he's *motivated*."
All kids try to lie, it's part of growing up. The trick is not to be a liar yourself and when you're found out to be one, don't bleat about your own 'innocence' and fail to accept theirs!! A liar can never catch out a lie and the consequence of your fat arsed lazy actions would leave anyone *motivated* to carry on in the same way!!
4. "Whatcha gonna do if they defy you openly? They're big, physically. Want to lock them up? Hit them? This kind of parenting is frowned upon, and sometimes they hit back. You send them to their room, and for the next few hours, they aren't playing. Gonna stay up all night to keep 'em from sneaking out of the house? Gonna stay home from work to keep 'em at home? You have less free time than your kid does, even if you are a perfect parent. If it was actually drugs, you could get in-patient treatment at a rehab center. Not so many opportunities if the activity isn't illegal."
You shouldn't have put yourself in that situation in the first place! And you're not "Big Physically!!" No need to "lock them up" or "hit them"! What for, your own dismal failings?! Maybe it is "frowned upon" but why would they "hit back"? Maybe you should have sent "them" to the bottom of the stairs instead of the haven of their room! The only reason they "sneak out of the house" is because you're a prick of a parent and you wouldn't need to stay "home from work" if you weren't!! You're right on the "free time" comment and I'm certainly not and never will be a "perfect parent" (or grandparent for that matter), but if you choose to cave in at the drop of a bottom lip then tell me why should the 'treatment' be paid for by more responsible parents just because you didn't, couldn't and never intended to give a SHIT about YOUR KID!!!
5. "Ultimately you can throw him out to teach him a lesson, but this is the "nuclear option" of parenting. It implies complete failure."
The only ultimate and nuclear conclusion to this part of your post is you are a complete failure. I'm not 'IMPLYING' this conclusion . . . It's a STATEMENT OF FACT!!!
6. "Yeah, there are parents who can't handle even a mild case of playing too much. They need to be, uh, corrected. But even a really terrific parent will struggle with addiction. To anything."
A true and real 'parent' can handle whatever comes along, be it mild or extreme!! How can they do this?? Because whether the child they bear is planned or un-planned, a true / real parent takes responsibility, accepts responsibility, feels and is, ultimately responsible for their children!!
The only thing that needs to be "corrected" is the gene pool that spawns fuckwit 'parents' such as yourself . . . unfortunately you've already spawned another generation of your defect but maybe . . . just maybe . . . your kid will be able to get far enough away from you that by the time he becomes a 'parent' said gene will be permanently dormant . . . I do hope so!!
To El Reg moderators:
Obviously, you are free to reject my post and refrain from allowing it to appear on your site but I truly hope you don't, as I feel my response is a counter-balance to many of lifes' reflections.
Regards
Because its about the cost of two videos per month and provides a whole lot more entertainment than what Hollywood churns out or what's on TV. When seen as an alternative to TV/video it suddenly becomes both interesting and cheap.
I work in IT so I have several computers around the house, but how about *not* giving your kid a computer (or tv). I've used computers since I was 13, but while I have accumulated a lot of information from computers, they are not about education.
Education should be about learning how to learn, learning how to think and reason and learning how to express yourself clearly and precisely. Computers are pretty useless at all of these tasks. In fact, the ease with which computers allow one can reorganise information and incorporate other people's thoughts with minimal input from yourself, actually works against the goals of education.
If little Johnie is always at his friends' house, parents should find out what he's doing there. If its something you don't want him doing (or you can't find out what he's doing), don't let him go. Is he buying time-cards to play at friends? Well where is he getting the money from?
This game is perfect for me, its a enjoyable as well, i don't spend all my time on it but it does require time to do anything i want so it prolongs the game more and there is always something to do.
I've quit this game several times and always gone back to it.... Why ? because i have 3 consoles and about 30 odd games for each that are all completed... most gathering dust as once single player is done it get dull/boring (unless you have a really nice multiplayer or extras).
I wouldn't call this an addiction to the game, but more and addiction to my cash, i complete games in a week/month, thats 10/50pounds.
I would then want a new game to finish that would be another 10/50pounds. World of warcraft costs around 15 every two months, thats a huge saving for me on other things (like my soon to have Sony P series netbook :D)
This game will always get a thumbs up from me no matter what, oh and yeh the kid should really have some parental features or something if he can't handle an addiction.
When I was a kid I split my time between sports and reading. Both were seen as "good". The majority of the sports I played were team sports, so that was seen as both "character building" and "good social interaction". I would happilly play football all afternoon for hours, then go home and read novels and historical biographies into the small hours of the morning, if I could escape my parents checking I wasn't reading under the covers. I have no doubt it did affect my school work - I was always hankering to get through boring maths lessons to get to phys ed and more sport, and at home I would put off doing homework if I had a good book to hand. Just about all my pocketmoney went on books. In a way, I was addicted to books and sport, but nobody has EVER described that as a bad thing. At worst, my parents would sometimes grumble that I "always had my nose in a book".
Now, how much worse a use of time is it to spend playing an online game than reading novels? Both require inventive production to capture an audience, both require money to pursue, and both could be described as unproductive uses of time. Indeed, reading for enjoyment is just that - can you really claim even "literary classic writers" such as Charles Dickens are in any way relevant to modern life? How will "Oliver Twist" help you deal with that project plan you have to write next week? Didn't think so. And online gaming can lead to more social interaction than sitting alone in a room reading a book. Maybe in twenty years it will all have changed and children will be largely educated in virtual classrooms online (how much more interesting would a history lesson be if you could walk through a virtual Roman battle, or down the streets of ancient Athens?). Maybe then online gaming will be considered with the same benevolence as reading.
After all, there have been periods in history when some thought too much wieght was given to reading anything other than factual volumes. As late as the 19th Century, respected writers such as Arthur Helps talked about such "fanciful reading" as; “Reading is sometimes an ingenious device for avoiding thought.”
Now, if only Blizzard had bothered to include parental controls into the game. Maybe set it up so that the parents can specify exactly when they can play (not during school hours, not late at night) and for how long and make it account based so that it doesn't actually matter if you play it on your own computer, on your friends computer or at a cybercafe. Maybe make it password protected with a separate password to the account so that little Jonny can't just go back in and reset it. Oh, actually that's exactly what they did.
This is exactly the same problem with the hysteria over the prying Paedo's in little Susie's 'I love High School Music' chat rooms. If you're concerned, put the computer somewhere communal in the house and not in their own bedrooms.
There are, what, 12 million subscribers? And one is dead? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that's in line with all other pasttimes, considerably better than most sports, and way better than any actual drug.
This sounds like the usual attention-grab by the usual association of losers.
Yeah, and computer-illiterate parents are supposed to know how to set up parental controls? Most kids can usually run circles around their parents, since 24/7 surveillance isn't commonplace yet.
It's just like any other addiction: it's a mental health issue. Until this society gets over its phobia about discussing mental health issues rather than criminalising and ostracising those who have it, it'll just get worse. From "War on Drugs" to the growing "War on WoW", it's utterly insane that almost 80 years of complete failure hasn't taught anyone that Prohibition doesn't fucking work.
"Ok smart non-parents...You wipe your computers clean of WoW. You close the account. Sorted, right?
Nope. Your kid can get a prepaid debit card to pay for an account. As pointed out, it's only $15/mo. He can play at friends. He can hang out at internet cafes. Remember, this person is approximately as smart as you are, and *all* they want to do is play WoW."
OK if ts and an addiction treat as such. If you have a person staying with you that's an alcoholic you dont let booze in the house. You dont say well they are going to get it any ways .
If your teen is addicted to wow you take the computer away, you cancel the net . Yes you do your best to watch them 24/7
"[If only there had been some sort of authority to look over the boy. Perhaps someone with the wisdom of age from who's loins he could have sprung, then raised him for 15 years, brought the computer, and paid for his WoW account every month]."
Sarcastic but completely true....Where were the parents then?
This guy seems to have a very narrow view of game addiction. I have personally been "addicted" to EVE-Online and WoW. People have KILLED in real life over items in other games like Everquest. What is addiction, is it not being able to stop? Maybe I don't want to stop? I bet people who are addicted to crack cocaine *do* want to stop being addicted, that's the difference... I recently asked myself "Do I want a very good degree mark, or do I want to play WoW?" I chose the former, and had no problems putting myself on a 4 month /afk - because that's what I WANTED to do.
Maybe WoW just scoops up all the publicity cause it has 11 million players, and is therefore statistically likely to have the vast majority of people dying from "addiction" to it.
I personally dont think its the games that are the issue but the personality of the person that plays them. I played WoW both US and EU versions maxed out characters then quit withing a couple of months. Why? probably the same reason I dont smoke, take drugs, or drink more than socially. I don't have an addictive personality.
Someone that will get addicted to something will be far more likely to get addicted to something else. Computer games are entertaining, theres is a lot to be involved in and I can see how people can get attached. If someone already is susceptable to being addicted to something then its a bad combination.
As for kid's id let my kids play games but there would be a limit they play on the hours I allow them to. Outside those hours they wont have access to the internet/computer/account's for such games. Its not hard set boundries and when the push them take away the thing they like. Kids cant play these games without the things in the home that parents provide so in your own home any parent can stop it if they want.
I spoke to some guy the other day complaining that his kid keeps looking up porn on the internet, turns out the internet was the only used by their kid so I just said why do you leave it on all the time, call the isp change the password and dont set it on the router. Bang no more problem and if the internet is needed for something he could set it up and control how long its used for. Kids are clever and will get around things but theres a limit to what they can do.
Must be "slow publishing" week down there. The game has been known as "Warcrack" amongst the circles I frequent about as long as the game has existed. And those using the term *includes* long-time players.
All of them (players, non-players, ex-players) agree on "Warcrack". So what took this mob so long to come to the same realisation?
.. as the government is wont to do with anything that large numbers of people actually enjoy.
We'll end up with Robbie Williams on Parkinson talking about his level 60 Night Elf lady-boy, no doubt closely followed by George Michael discussing the joys of "twinking" a second account and a harrowing serialised in the Daily Mail account of George Best's struggle with his 16 hour raid habit by whoever it is who's milking his corpse for a book this week.
After that it'll only be a matter of time before we get Bill Clinton crawling out of the wood work to tell us he installed WoW once, but never actually logged on.
Wuss!
In my day we didn't have t'new fangled angband with its fancy colours an' fancy screen layouts.
In my day we 'ad "Moria" on a green screen and proper player permadeath, and we were grateful forrit an'all!
I think I may know what went wrong with my A-Levels...
Icon: what icon? graphics are for wimps!
Sad that someone dies but it honestly not the games fault. I just can't believe people can even think it is. The game provides tools to manage this and even then parents should know what their children are up to. This is just a sign of the times with people thinking the world is responsible for their kids. We are NOT so live with it.
And to whoever was that clown about the game controlling people and quit to prove it? Honestly how can you agree against that. I should quit just to show you I can? Get real noob, I don't want to quit and to all you out there that blame the game HTFU. You can have a successful real life and the full epic toon. Just step up and make the effort.
Reminds me of many wasted hours on Evercrack during my sixth form years. The granddad of the MMORPG it was very addictiive. Fortunately I had a gf who promptly saved me from it. That and only having a very small budget; I couldn't afford it. Hoorah for poverty.
The problem comes when people start prefering to live in artificial world instead of the real one.
I watched it destroy one of my best friends it wasn't pretty.
"My son is obsessed by [insert football team], so we have to ban them, tear down all his posters, refuse to let him go to the games or watch them on TV! Right now!"
"My daughter only listens to music by [insert artist], so we have to ban her from watching them, hearing them and then we have to make sure they can't peddle this filth any longer!"
"My kids watch so much television...."
Do I need to go on? I didn't even have to resort to the Twat-O-Tron to create similar NIMBY Daily Fail reading nonsense.
If you want to address a social issue, lets look at DRINKING or SMOKING or the violence that surrounds us each and every day in the street.
Stop picking on the little things and look at the big issues.
Angband - now that is hard core.
Whilst I was at warwick Uni I remember 5 to 6 hour playing sessions going through the latest compile made by some guy doing compsci (Geoff?). I was always the lightweight as I normally went to bed at some point.
However on one occassion I did wake up at 6am to find myself sitting at a computer with my fingers still stuck on the control keys and some security guy looming over me asking me kindly to move along.
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