Manchester's congestion charge: pay-to-leave Manchester council looks set to pick up a big pile of cash from central government in exchange for setting up a two-tier congestion charge system to tax drivers who enter or leave the city. The congestion zone covers most of Manchester. You will pay to go into the centre in the morning and pay again to leave in the evening. …
I thought they had already killed this idea - Bo-lax!!
On the last load of useless unsolicited junk-mail with info about it, it seemed to suggest I will get charged for going onto the M60 (towards Manchester), even though I don't actually go into or near Manchester, I travel past Stockport and then onto M56 to a more civilised part of the country - I won't be paying - don't care, they can lock me up for it - it's just not cricket!!
The flame - because I predict a riot!!
Because, just like london, the people driving around the centre of Manchester are doing it just to annoy everyone, not because they have no practical alternative.
My company provides free transport in the form of a minibus, but i still use my motorbike to go to work and back.
Its certainly not cheaper than free company provided transport, but waiting 30mins to an hour for a minibus that takes 30mins to get to another site, 10 mins drive away is not my idea of practical. As with london, everyone will just pay up as they have no choice.
Setting the charges so they only affect rush hour is certainly interesting (I'm not saying I agree with it - just that it's interesting). It would be a good incentive to move the working day round to avoid these times, which I suppose is sort-of the idea.
As for "paying a deposit for an electronic tag" - well, how does this work then if you're only passing through? If you live and work in Manchester then you'll have an opportunity to get one of these, but what do you do otherwise? Request one and then wait until it arrives in the post before you set off?
Did I read that correctly ? 1.2 bn in grants and 1.8 bn in loans.
What in the name of all that is holy are they spending all that on?
Think about that amount. 1bn is 1000 million. And they want 3 of them.
Right, firstly, why the hell is it so expensive? Where is that vast, incomprehensible amount of money going? Cos putting up a couple of cameras doesnt cost that.
Secondly, is it worth it? Manchester might have a bit less traffic by 2013. Who cares? It will anyway with current oil prices. Of course it bloody isnt worth it. A pile of money that big could be spent in a lot better way to reduce traffic, and more importantly to improve the lives of the people who are paying for it. Me. And other taxpayers. It really is time that someone removed this drug-addled government from power. No wonder the governments bust if some consultant has told them it'll take 3 billion quid to piss of the entire population of manchester, and theyve bought it. Absolute effing morons, it's time to get of them. Im off to Zimbabwe. They know how to run an economy better than this lot of mindless cretins. And at least their leader is paying lip service (ish, of sorts) to getting actually elected, unlike the shyster running us. All this article needed was a mention of Vista and I really would have burst a blood vessel.
Yet another scheme unwanted by the public, introduced by people who don't know what they're doing...
They talk about turning e.g. Altrincham into an "interchange" - maybe that'd work if there was anywhere near the station to park, or if there was more than one train every half hour from Altrincham into Cheshire, or if bus services were remotely useful. They're just not.
So, what's the interest on 1.8 billion over 30 years? A staggering amount, that's how much!
With 3 billion quid, you could build an monorail system or a tram system or a tube (or something) that covers the whole of Manchester and provides free transport to all. THAT would be a genuine solution to the congestion problem! Problem is, it would take some effort to do - it's much easier just to push some paper around and taek money off people (money that serves absolutely no purpose other than to pay off their 1.8 billion loan!)
We really do have a collective of absolute morons running this country, don't we?
"Did I read that correctly ? 1.2 bn in grants and 1.8 bn in loans.
What in the name of all that is holy are they spending all that on?"
Well they will shuffle most of the money around to fund other things, such as the Council Christmas Party. That'll leave about 2.5bn, 2bn to go on consultants, 250m to go on winning over people, 200m to go on advertising for the great new greater manchester, and then 50m to go on putting into place.
End result some IT technician with years of expierence sitting infront of a comptuer programming like a dog for 20k whilst talking into his cup of coffee about "being able to burn this place down".
Oh and then the project will run over budget and the poor IT technician will get blamed.
Greater Manchester's public transport actually isn't that bad, although it's not a spot on London's regardless of how much Londoners whinge about being squashed on the tube.
Leaving aside the fact congestion doesn't last until 09:30 or cover all of the M60, they're not promising to properly overhaul transport. There are almost no night buses (post midnight) outside Manchester (there were some in Bolton, but they got canned due to lack of available funds. gee, thanks..). Some areas of South Manchester have practically zero transport to/from the centre even pre midnight.
There are no extra trains promised, only extra carriages - maybe.
There is no real detail on the bid either on websites or leaflets - it's a rubber stamp job that's being pushed through without decent consultation.
Well at least here in Edinburgh we got to vote, and we turned it down, although Edinburgh is a nightmare for traffic.
If Manchester can borrow close to 3 billion for this why can't borrow 3 billion to build a flashy new low carbon transport system ?
Oh wait if they can borrow 3 billion then this scheme must have huge money making potential, didn't anyone every point out to coty councils that they are supposed to be serving their community not enslaving them.
A transport system would actually help people and since the proceeds of this plan will be paying off their loan for 30 years say goodbye to an alternative.
It's about time stuff in this country was NOT run like a business, business is only good for profit not civil improvement, and civil improvement is rarely profitable in the short term.
Not a bad wheeze - the government claims that no decision on 'road-pricing' in any form has been made whilst they hold back road funding unless LA's implement some form of road pricing!
Nice one...claim you have nothing to do with it while you make the LA's look like the big bad ones...
This government have really dropped below the level of scum. Apart from helping create a more violent society, they have mis-managed the economy completely. How can we have gone through over a decade of 'unprecedented global economic growth' and come out the other side owing billions upon billions in national debt...
And the solution? Just more and more and more and more tax.
The General Election cannot come soon enough...
The money is not being spend on the c-charge - it's going on the public transport. There's 35km of tram lines, plus a load of extra buses.
The thing that really annoys me is that the big public transport improvement that's needed isn't getting done - the long-promised widening of the Manchester Loop to four tracks instead of two. At the moment, there are only two tracks (one in each direction) crossing Manchester, which makes through services almost impossible. The problem is that they've allowed a load of crappy flats to go up either side of the line, so widening will mean CPOs on those flats, and then demolishing them all. Last time I asked, it was costed at over £5bn in land acquisition alone - and then they have to build a four-track viaduct for a couple of miles across Manchester. All because they didn't get off their arses when the Hacienda closed and buy it all up cheap.
As a result, there aren't enough trains running into the city, so people have to drive or get crushed. No amount of c-charge is going to fix that one.
I was under the impression that I paid Road Tax in order to be able to utilise the highways which I, and my fellow taxpayers, have already paid for.
Not content with taxing me once, they now seek to charge me again for the privilege of driving on road which I have already paid for.
Of course, I'm sure the real winners in this will be those low paid workers who no longer have to be bothered with the tiresome burden of being able to get to and from work within a reasonable time frame, and will have to settle for waiting around in the rain for non-existent public transport.
As Morrissey might say, 'The more you ignore the public, the closer the elections get"
Stupid stupid stupid idea. Authorities likelike Stockport and Trafford straddle the M60. If I pop out the 1 mile to my local Tesco at the wrong time it's going to cost me £3 !!! Would they rather I drive 7 miles the other way instead skirting around the M60?
EPIC FAIL.
As a result of a pre-launch survey, I understand, the good burghers anticipated that the speeding camera fines (sorry, safety camera penalties) to be collected would pay for the camera installation in (about) 6 months and they were shocked and distressed when it went massively wrong.
They didn't factor in that people would slow down and that those who didn't would be off the road and so not eligible to pay, in short order. Nothing much practically changed as a result of the 'road safety cameras' - correct this urban myth, please.
I wonder if the vast expenditure on (German made, Swedish constructed, French operated, UK Taxpayer paid for) - point to point trams will actually do any good at all for congestion. Certainly, if they start taxing to travel on M60 motorway I shall change my route to Liverpool. I thought the Motorways were National highways, anyway so what's with the idea of a local Toll. (OK, we've the Severn, Humber and Thames toll crossings - but they're different.... Oh no they're not!!!)
Sorry, I'm talking to my special friend 'cos nobody else listens to me. Am I mad? Yes! Mad as hell.....
Mine's the canvas one with the straps round the back......
lots of complaints about the tax, but no solutions, as always. What do our anti-tax brothers have in mind to reduce congestion? Knock down buildings to make bigger roads? Flying cars perhaps? They should have plenty of time to come up with a solution.... Whilst their stuck in traffic.
£2,999,999,500,000 on PR and consultants
£500,000 on equipment.
How much would providing decent buses cost?
Christ, that's enough money to put a massive dent on world poverty or probably coving the whole of Manchester in solar panels! I actually feel sick.
A half-arsed forced-car-share would work better probably, costing considerably less.
Joke because.. well, please tell me it can't actually cost that much. Value for money anyone?
"...Ah well, it'll be nice to see Manchester in conservative blue for a change..."
you're kidding right? - this shit-hole is the original 'pin a red rosette on a donkey and it'll get elected' borough. if manchester city council started putting the poor into gas chambers, the cretins would still vote for them on election day.
"..me dad voted for t'labour all 'is life... and 'is grandfather before 'im..."
fucking plankton!
Sounds brilliant - make it more expensive to work there - smaller businesses gradually begin to avoid it - then larger - smaller service businesses (cafes, restaurants etc) fail - the entire area becomes undesirable - and in twenty years (or less) you will be paying a huge bill in an effort to 'revitalise' the core.
But, hey, you cut down on the traffic.
Use the stick, comrades, and forget about carrots!
I wonder how much rapid transit infrastructure 3 billion whatsits would pay for? And let me ask while I'm at it, are those billions million-millions or thousand-millions?
It seems to me that discussion of proposed major IT projects in the UK public sector would be facilitated by a simple table that contains:
1. whether the project failed or succeeded. (Some will have succeeded by being significantly reduced in scope; these outcomes need to be noted, too.)
2. original estimated cost and actual cost;
3. original target date and actual date the system went live (if it ever did);
4. identity of principal contractor(s).
The table's usefulness would be enhanced by providing references so as to combat deliberately spread disinformation and obfuscatory tactics by the spin doctoring profession.
The Register is well-placed to compile such a table, with the great advantage of a well-informed readership ready, willing, and able to point out errors and omissions. Go to it, lads and lasses!
Heart because I love The Register, in a strange sort of way.
"Drivers will pay a deposit for an "electronic tag" which will trigger "electronic beacons", the BBC reports"
Anyone else see the potential flaw in this?
Living near to London why should I get a Tag to enter a city for a one off trip.
Also I can see a great market for fake and stolen tags.
The congestion charge is being sold to us lot around greater manchester as some sort of deal with central government to pay for the metrolink we were promised. Which they cut funding for, for some reason, probably because it peeked a little bit above the 900 mil they'd initially budgeted for.. Now this congestion charge is going to get a 1.2 billion subsidy to get started...
Wait a minute, wasn't this charge supposed to pay for the Metrolink light rail extension? Why is it getting more money than the extension was going to get? Why didn't they just take that 1.2 billion or whatever, that they suddenly seem to have lying around for useless schemes, and "invest" it straight into the Metrolink instead? They'd still have a few hundred mil left over for padding out MP's salaries, filling one of the pot-holes in Gord... sorry, Darling's books, or building a new fountain somewhere, too. Everybody wins! Well except the taxpayers, but that's probably an argument for another day...
Oh wait, it's actually about saving the planet now, so we have to pay whether or not we get our light rail. Ye gods.
"Unable to ever get out of Manchester" just got a whole new dimension. You made it far enough to afford a car, yet you just cannot afford to leave town.
"And it makes you wonder why I am making plans for better days" (says Nige Bray)
Stevo, because today's St. Job's Day
This post has been deleted by its author
The 3 billion is mainly to build public transport infrastructure so people don't need to drive.
I live in Edinburgh and I voted for the congestion charge. We have pretty decent buses, fairly regular, not too busy. I don't see why I should put up with the noise fumes and 5 minute wait to cross the road to the shops just so you w....rs in cars can fill the streets on your unnecessary trips while you get steadily fatter, bringing on diabetes and using even more tax money via the NHS. Traffic is the worst thing about this city - If I could buy up the road in front of my flat and charge you a fortune to drive over it I would. If the council will do it on my behalf, good on them!
It's just more tax. When I lived in a city like Brussels with good and cheap public transport in the form of Buses and Trams I used them, as I suspect most people would.
You only need to start hitting people with another tax if there's no real alternative to a car
You could also look at it and say well Manchester is too big for it's infrastructure so they should now freeze all building or opening of new offices until such time as the appropriate roads/trams/buses etc. can be provided.
I have the misfortune to be one of them. In my job we operate from a small office in the outskirts. And have customers all over Manchester! Customers that demand we are there within an hour if something breaks, meaning the ridiculously expensive "metrolink" is a no-no. I'm sure i'm not the only person in that situation. Where is the money going to go? Are residents of manchester going to get a tax-break for it? Of course not! All it means is thousands of people who already struggle more because of the "20% Tax Band" will have even less to feed their families.
Mines the one with the plane tickets out of this forsaken country.
I personally train it to work in the city centre and have for the last 10 years, even before petrol prices went stratospheric. I'm not here to gloat though, just to register my annoyance at the City Council for simply not listening to people and helping businesses leave the city in droves.
Government don't get it, they're supposed to be a government OF the people, BY the people and FOR the people. They can't govern though, as they're all too busy with their noses in the trough. £3 billion? What for? They've had silly Metrolink prices for 10 years and the service has hardly moved on (unless you count building one new station next to the Hard Rock casino, big wow).
As Rik from the Young Ones said, "Let's raise the people's army and seize control of the state!"
And they haven't figured out how to do anything without dipping their fat fingers into your pocket. I'm wondering what they do if you really are only "passing through"...charge double since you won't be making the normal "exit" trip.
Mine's the one with the pockets sewn shut.
"lots of complaints about the tax, but no solutions, as always. What do our anti-tax brothers have in mind to reduce congestion? Knock down buildings to make bigger roads? Flying cars perhaps? They should have plenty of time to come up with a solution.... Whilst their stuck in traffic."
How about the rising income due to the VAT on fuel+fuel duty? or even some of the £45bn the motorist hands out to the government, whilst seeing only £7bn put back in?
And, I'd like to add, who are expected to be paying back the £1.8bn loan?
And the money is to be invested in to schemes aimed at forcing people to use 'public' privatised transport - will be seeing any of the profits from these companies?
For all the people who voted these people in - feeling a bit silly now, eh?
Madra's right, the sooner the council goes blue the better.
Stop sign 'cos thats what they want us to do.
Manchester City Council, and all the rest of the local councils, are only doing what they have been instructed to do.
Alas, I can't find the reference again, but there is a European Union plan that TEN cities in the EU regions formerly known as England will adopt congestion charging. They won't be instructed to do it! Instead they will all look at all the available evidence (such as no money for transport infrastructure unless they agree to it), and then spontaneously suggest that a congestion charge is what they need.
Anyway its another excuse for more population monitoring CCTV and ANPR. "They" need another excuse because we have all rumbled the "prevention and detection of crime" excuse as worthless.
Black helicopters are the only way to get around.
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