Hackers hit back at iPhone update

I can't resist!!

Dongme Li?? Sounds like the name of a pr0n star - and considering she's been shafted by Apple.......

=8-D

$1m???

"$200 only weeks after its release. New York woman Dongmei Li is looking for $1m in damages, "

Y'what? Surely she should be asking for $200 in damages. I completely fail to see how a million dollars is justified.

Why no fuss?

Why is it that there has been so little coverage of this? If this had been Microsoft the press would be screaming blue bloody murder, the EU would be looking into it, the pope would have addressed the masses etc.

It seems that Apple can screw whoever they like and the users just say "more please".

The second to last paragraph says it all :

"There are also rumours online of a class action suit against the firm due to the update. However, the suit may fail to materialise." Yeah, because it wasn't microsoft and Apple users are so into Apple that they don't mind the odd stiffing.

Was the update pushed unconditionally?

Or did it require users' consent?

I am amazed that iPhone lovers can tolerate such insulting behaviour from the manufacturer.

EU

I'm still wondering how they can get around the EU issue. I was under the impression that you are legally entitled to request the operator, for a small fee, unlocks your phone for use on other networks once your contract is up. Furthermore you are allowed to buy yourself out of contract by paying the monthly fees up front so could easily have ask for an unlocked phone within a few days of purchase.

The EU??

It's illegal for a phone company to stop you unlocking your phone to go to another network.

Where is the EU in punishing Apple?

I don't get it

Why are people so p'd off at a manufacturer who is saying "hack your product to get more out of it than you paid for and we will make sure it doesn't work" - what is wrong with that?

Let's say I bought a Citroen C1 (I know but it's better than a Nissan Micra. . . D'OH!) and then some hack said "If you download this hack, you can turn your C1 into a Cadillac SRX4" and you do it but the next automatic update from Citroen turns it back into a broken C0.75, you've only got yourself to blame as afar as I see it, you've broken the warranty.

Apple criminal Record

>>Y'what? Surely she should be asking for $200 in damages. I completely fail to see how a million dollars is justified.

Bad company like the rottent apple need to be punish,

>>It seems that Apple can screw whoever they like and the users just say "more please.

Saddly most apple users a just brainwashed sheep. Such a nasty (criminal and illegal) move apple should be ground for a planet wide ban on all apple (inferior) product.

>>I am amazed that iPhone lovers can tolerate such insulting behaviour from the manufacturer.

simple: apple user = mindless drone

Contract

Surely a service contract can't oblige you to use that service? I can't remember amongst all the hype, but if it's not different to all other phone contracts, it's a 2 year contract to pay 02 money for providing a service. If you left the thing turned off in a drawer for 2 years, O2 would be delighted.

Apple, with whom the user has no contract are acting to force people to use the O2 service so that they get their cut of call charges etc. They can't make (?enough?) money selling the stupid thing so they have to indulge in monopolistic practices (not that I'm saying they have anything resembling a real monopoly) to turn a profit.

i get it

So customer break the warranty that means Apple can break your phone.

Makes total sense.

@censored

> Where is the EU in punishing Apple

Feeling insincerely sorry for fanboiz, I would guess. As the thing isn't officially for sale here until November, Apple haven't broken any EU laws.

OTOH, when they do, I hope someone takes them to the cleaners. There would be a certain irony in us goddam foreign Yurrupeens having more freedom than Apple's home country :-)

The EU

The iPhone has yet to be released in the EU so no law has yet been broken within their jurisdiction.

@ Anonymous Vulture

Excellent - an incomprehensible car analogy. And all is right with the world..

You what?

To whoever wrote:

> Let's say I bought a Citroen C1 (I know but it's better than a Nissan Micra. . .

> D'OH!) and then some hack said "If you download this hack, you can turn your

> C1 into a Cadillac SRX4" and you do it but the next automatic update from

> Citroen turns it back into a broken C0.75, you've only got yourself to blame as

> afar as I see it, you've broken the warranty.

Surely you're being sarcastic? Holy shit, you're not!

If I "modified" my car in any way and took it to the dealer, they would be obliged to service it regardless. Sure I might void my warrantee, fair enough, but they would *NOT* be entitled to take a knife to the tyres and tell me it's my own fault for voiding the warrantee!

Shit a brick, you've clearly been listening to that polo-neck-wearing brainwashing Reverend Jobs too much.

@ Mectron

> simple: apple user = mindless drone

...interesting premise. Based on your spelling and grammar you have the mindless part down. Furthermore, your ignorant assertion places you firmly in the it's-cool-to-hate-apple camp, making you a drone. Kudos! You have outdone yourself with irony. Please feel free to respond with "fanboi"/ "iDiot" rantings to further prove my point.

RE: I don't get it

"Let's say I bought a Citroen C1 (I know but it's better than a Nissan Micra. . . D'OH!) and then some hack said "If you download this hack, you can turn your C1 into a Cadillac SRX4" and you do it but the next automatic update from Citroen turns it back into a broken C0.75, you've only got yourself to blame as afar as I see it, you've broken the warranty."

That's a bad example. It's more like your Citroen C1 only being able to run on a specific brand of petrol due to false restrictions put in place and you wanting to beable to use any brand of petrol with your car. I personally believe it's wrong to lock people into a specific contract when you buy a phone and not allow any way around it. Infact I believe it's against the law in the EU?

You pays your money...

You takes your chances.

1: I have no sympathy to those who bought the thing day one and are now a bit peeved because the price went down a lot. Buying anything day one is merely a societal status purchase.

2: A shifty unlock or not, when buying the phone, people had to sign a contract. Remember those days when signing a contract actually stood for something? Nowadays it seems that if you complain like a 3 year old having a tantrum, you expect to get out of a contract just like that with no penalties.

3: I think Apple want a good kick up the backside off the edge of Beachyhead.

stop whining

if you bought it on day 1 then the price dropped, tough, thats life, it happens to everything.

If you 'flashed' it with a non manufacture approved firmware, then you did void your warranty etc, I'm sure you will find it in the small print you agreed to when you bought/registered it.

If you then (stupidly) applied a manufacturers 'upgrade', when they had previously gone public and told you it would brick your now midified phone, then you are a total idiot !

And as to car warranty's, here in the uk if you dont use an approved stealer, sorry dealer, to do the service's, you lose warranty, heaven forbid that you actually put oil in it yourself!

I'm glad it's "heating up"

FTA "The war between Apple and the hackers is heating up"

Thank you so much for not saying 'hotting up'.

$1m lmao

I think this woman asking for a million bucks over this is a joke. They should sue her for wasting their time.

I signed what contract?

I have an iPhone and I didn't sign any contract when I bought my iPhone.

This is the problem with the iPhone sales model that Apple have devised... It is totally open to exploitation by hackers:

To buy an iPhone, you walk into an Apple store, give them $200 plus local sales tax, and walk out with the Jebusphone in a nice white bag.

You then unbox the thing (exclaiming "Oh Jesus!!" when you see it for the first time) and turn it on.

It tells you to connect it to iTunes to activate it.

You can't do anything with it at this point legitimately, but you've still not signed any contract, so you do what you want with it... In my case, I connected it to my Macbook and ran the independence application which fakes the iTunes activation process.

This then gives you an iPod Touch (with email functionality and a better screen). This is how I've left mine for now, as I have a Three contract that doesn't end until year end and I can't use the USIM in the iPhone... But once that contract ends, I'll do the SIM unlock procedure on it which is as simple as installing a few more apps and clicking a few buttons.

Anyway, my point is, that you can just buy the hardware, hack it and use it for whatever you want without signing up to anything...

All mobile phones on contract that I've purchased since 1994 have required me to have a credit check and for me to sign a contract before I can walk out of the shop with the phone. Therefore, if I wanted to unlock the phone, I'd still be stuck with a 12 month contract, which doesn't make much sense. The iPhone doesn't follow this sales model, which is why people can buy the iPhone and never pay a penny to AT&T.

I've heard that this sales model will be rolled out in the UK too, which just seems crazy to me.

Long post. Sorry!

I bet someone tests this....

Whilst I don't have the cash to waste doing it, I'm sure someone with money to burn and a curious nature will pay out for the full contract immediately and ask for the phone to be unlocked. Then we'll see just what the differences are, and how Apple propose to control the updates to legally unlocked phones. Or, more likely, Apple and O2 will be banking on noone doing this for 18 months, (by which time it'll be old hat anyway) and the story will kick up another big fuss. Go on someone, it'll be a laugh.

Apple have done ZERO wrong

Apple sell a product, they clearly say "it does this and if you want it to do that you'll invalidate your warranty and we won't support it". User buys it anyway, hacks it (for hack read break), user then bitches about it. Err.. sorry, don't see where Apple went wrong on that.

I'll say this till I'm blue in the face... if they didn't want the product to do what it does they shouldn't have bought it. By making ANY purchase you agree to the terms and conditions, and in this they even signed a contract!!! You break it, you invalidate your right to complain, bitch and generally be a pain in the a$$ about it.

Man walks into a chainsaw shop, shop owner sells him a chainsaw and says "I want you to sign a contract saying if you use it as a nailbrush and cut your hand off its not our fault".. man agrees, promptly uses it as a nailbrush and tries to sue, would you all be saying it was the shop owners fault??

Idiots... smart a$$ idiots, serves them right.

Wrong analogy

"If I "modified" my car in any way and took it to the dealer, they would be obliged to service it regardless. Sure I might void my warrantee, fair enough, but they would *NOT* be entitled to take a knife to the tyres and tell me it's my own fault for voiding the warrantee!"

No, that's also a poor analogy. I believe the correct analogy is this: you take a screwdriver and soldering iron to your car and replace the ECU, engine, alternator, on-board computer and replace them with your own. Not only do your void your warranty but the garage won't even service it because the components are not made by the manufacturer. If they were to service it, they might damage your car, causing criminal damage.

O2 and phones in drawers...

---------

Surely a service contract can't oblige you to use that service? I can't remember amongst all the hype, but if it's not different to all other phone contracts, it's a 2 year contract to pay 02 money for providing a service. If you left the thing turned off in a drawer for 2 years, O2 would be delighted.

---------

Actually O2 would be almost certainly happier if you kept it on, but only made non-inclusive calls and received plenty of calls. Much more money there than a flat 0/0 usage.

Apple not ethical and incompetent

1. I have updated the fimware on Sony Ericsson, Nokia & HTC phones (locked and unlocked) and I have never had one bricked, ever. Apple have even managed to brick unlocked iPhones!

2. Apple announced the iPhone had a desktop level power OS and therefore raised expectations. But not only is the phone locked but also you cannot develop apps for it.

3. By enforcing the phone locking aspect Apple is managing the whole supply chain and not allowing users/consumers to get even more value from the platform. They are also reducing all options for improved value for customers by removing all choices. Nokia etc phones can generally be purchased from many channels (SIM free & networks).

I find all this amusing

Not being a consumer, not feeling the need to own the latest gadget. And not having the kind of personality that seeks succour in bragging rights. I actually find all this hilarious.

Anyone who bought this over hyped over priced consumer trap get all they deserve. Sorry, but I cannot help laughing, neither can Apple I would imagine.

Mobile video is pointless, for mobile music I have a 6 year old Sony minidisc walkman(awesome). My phone, a 4 year old Nokia does all sorts of things I don't want or need, fortunately it was free else wise I still would not have a mobile phone. FFS I get more cold sales calls and text adverts on it than I do legitimate calls.(slight exaggeration)

Are Apple/Mac owners sheep? Some perhaps. But one who does conform, consume and obey truly is a sheep.

Buying an iphone to me, seems pretty sheepish. Here's wishing you all get satisfaction out of them, even if the only satisfaction you get is whipping it out at a board meeting or in the pub.

snigger ;-)

Car analogy, what on earth?

I felt I had to register just to say WTF?

'tards

1. Apple warned everyone that the update may break the phone. What's the suprise when it did. No one was forced to update.

2. Apple has been quietly supportive of external app development. They could have very easily locked the iPhone down completely and chose not to.

3. Very few phones were actually "bricked."

4. Apple stores have been quietly fixing the bricked phones. While it's not offically supported, go to an Apple store and ask. Ten minutes later you'll probably have a working phone again.

The bottom line is that if you hacked your phone, you did so knowingly and accepted the risk. Don't turn this into an "Apple hates iPhone hackers" situation like the article suggests.

@ Mectron

"Bad company like the rottent apple need to be punish,"

"Saddly most apple users a just brainwashed sheep. Such a nasty (criminal and illegal) move apple should be ground for a planet wide ban on all apple (inferior) product."

"simple: apple user = mindless drone"

Amazingly, I find that rant to remain at least as apropos if one substitutes "Microsoft" every place one finds "apple."

But then, my choice is for *open* standards, not proprietary standards.

$1m lawsuit.

I still think it's ridiculous, but the $1m could make sense if she bought a lot of them with the intention to resell. I don't know anything about these 'pricing laws' but I don't have much sympathy for her. It's the same reason it's hard to find a local screwdriver shop that sells higher-end video cards, if the price drops 50% before they sell them all, they're pretty screwed. (Haha- get it? Screwed... yeah, the coat thing.) Clearly, she was hoping to sell them for above MSRP on e-bay. She should have known what she was getting into- it's risky business even without the price-drop. Them's the breaks.

Its not an update.....

There's open source phones out there that should give you some insight into how the phone works. Using the Trolltech Greenphone as a guide you see that the phone chipset is really just a peripheral, it works a bit like an old modem. The iPhone is probably different from the Greenphone, but the rules of software structure are the same. What this means is that if a software update -- any software update -- turns selected phones into bricks then either the original software was incredibly badly written or that the code update was malicious, it had no purpose but to deliberately disable -- even destroy -- the product.

This -- being a technical website -- should be obvious to everyone. It doesn't matter about user agreements, who has the 'right' and so on -- the idea that a vendor can destroy product you've bought at their whim is something that needs to be stamped on hard by the user base.

Personally, I won't touch the thing. I probably won't touch any more Apple products, ever, and I won't recommend them to OEMs. Apple have, IMO, blown it.

@leslie: The fact you fail to grasp...

Updating is not optional. Once the update is pushed onto iTunes you have to install it on the phone before you can use it to copy music again. Sure you could skip the update but you would be stuck with the same songs for evermore!

Not much sympathy

Apple gave able warning, I am sure both in small print and in a press release.

The people developing unlocking methods knew it would void the warranty and likely conflict with future updates.

I am willing to bet that every unlocking kit includes dire warnings about the potential consequences.

Don't get me wrong I am a big fan of people hacking their hardware, installing mod chips, flashing their firmware/BIOS with 3rd party code .... I am about to do the same thing to my wireless router.

But only a moron would make explicitly prohibited modifications to a product and then think they have a right to sue the manufacturer.

.

I find it interesting

I find it interesting that the ones defending Apple here, are the ones screaming loudest regarding Microsofts WGA. I actually find the WGA less damaging than Apples update.

I will be in the market for a new mobile phone next year. Guess what: There is exactly zero chance that I'll buy any iPhone. Why? Two reasons: Apples contract policy, and the idiotic "you must activate using iTunes"-policy. Neighter the contract nor having iTunes installed is acceptable. (No, don't try selling me any sort of iPod eighter. See point two. Besides, I'm more than happy with my now ageing Vision:M).

//Svein

Don't Worry Europeans...

... The Good Old EU Wont Allow This From Apple!

Look at how they fined Microsoft millions for forcing stuff on consumers, so if Apple think they can force people into not having their iphone unlocked they are seriously mistaken as they will be fined millions.

EU law states clearly that phone providers must allow consumers to unlock a phone for a small fee should they wish too once the contract is expired. If you choose to pay O2 to pay off your contract then your legally entited to ask them to unblock it. Its that simple.

Having said that if your buying your iphone outright as its suggested legally they should not be allowed to stop you from unblocking it. We should contact the EU for clarification so we know legally where we stand!!!!!

Lots of uninformed comment from people who have yet to really see the iPhone

Blah, blah, blah

apple sucks, no microsoft sucks, you suck - great informed debate here

I just traded my windows "smart" phone for an iPhone.

Yes the contract is somewhat annoying (although less than the blackberry contract I had), and AT&T may be the worst of a very bad bunch of cell phone providers in the US, but I was stuck with AT&T due to company policy so I thought I'd give it a try - if I don't like 13 days later I return it, it would only cost me $40.

So now I'm hooked and I bet that many if not most of you will be when you actually get a chance to use it. The interface is light years beyond anything else. The functionality is great and after the great 3G / edge debate I expected it to be slower than my "3G" windows phone but it's substantially faster. (Caution - I believe that what AT&T calls 3G is HSDPA - I don't know if that's the same animal as 3G in the rest of the world). Apple said battery life was the issue with 3G support and so far the battery life in the iPhone is 3-4 times better than the 3G Samsung Blackjack.

This is my only phone and I'm on it 3-4 hours a day for work, so it works for me. I'm sure I don't need a $399 phone - I could have a free nokia whatever and that would work fine, but I am very impressed at the execution of this.

And if you hacked it and a firmware update broke it, that's a chance you take. Don't like it, don't buy it.

Yeah I know, I'm a fanboi, so go ahead and ignore me - but just wait till you actually get to use it and then tell me I'm wrong.

R

To those ealry people calling for an EU lawsuit against apple...

I'd like to remind you folks that apple hasnt sold any iPhones in the EU.... So the EU cant take any action.

Wait till november... Then you can scream for your lawsuits.

Most Interesting!

Most interesting , me thinks the OZ Government Corporate Control lads will be frying their collective asses with an Oxygen Lance , if they try this stupidity down under in OZ !

Yet another reason...

Yet another reason to tell Apple to stick this phone where the sun will never shine. Makes Microsoft look positively genial by comparison.

Laughable

I laughed at the poster asking why the EU isn't punishing Apple for this. You'd think Apple already sells the iPhone in the EU (it doesn't). Once they do sell it in the EU, then the laws will apply.

EVERYONE using an iPhone today clicked their agreement to the terms of service before they could even get the home page of the iPhone. Those terms stated that you would not modify the software (or similar). So, yes, Apple could do what they did. Should they have? Well, they are protecting their revenue stream as a portion of each iPhone payment to the AT&T carrier goes back to Apple. They are in business to make money. What has me enraged is they broke iToner. I expect to have my own ringtones for people and refuse to pay twice for it.

No, Apple did not force the upgrade upon users AND they warned everyone in the update text that modified phones might be broken.

Warranty vs Brick

The car analogy used above really sucks, you know that?

If a person decides to unlock the phone, they aren't breaking any agreements - because they haven't bloody signed anything yet. They bought a product at a store. That's it. Nothing is signed at the store. You take it, you buy it, you take it home. End of story.

So unlocking it voids the warranty. Cool, some people can live with that. There is, however, a huge difference between "voiding the warranty" and "deliberately breaking the product that your customer paid way over the odds for".

Returning to the car analogy, a better one might be if the car manufacturer forced you to use a particular radio in your car. That radio is a satelite radio that costs $$ per month and only comes with lousy speakers. If you replace the radio with one that works better or cheaper the vendor comes to your door and takes a pry bar to your engine electronics, rendering the car useless, not just the radio.

That's what Apple has done with the iPhone. Sad part is, car manufacturers tried a similar trick (minus the satellite radio) many years ago, and they were soundly told off in court just for forcing people to use a particular radio in their cars.

Of course, the Microsoft and Apple fanbois are too busy acting all superior at each other to realize that they're BOTH getting ripped off by a manufacturer.

why cant common sense prevail??

ok, car analogy aside, if you take ANY product and hack it to make it do what you want, the manufacturer does NOT have to make any update they issue compatible with your hack. Answer : DONT apply the update. they even warned you. i am not talking about modding (like a skin/wheels/stereo/headset) i mean _hacking_ . Chip & nitro your car and see what happens to your warranty...

as for contract and 'forcing you'. You dont have to buy the product if you dont like the terms.. simple. i want a package holiday to spain, but they FORCED me to fly there? no. this is the offer. I have a brain. do i want the offer or not? i make a choice. i dont want an at&t /O2 contract, fine, go somewhere else.

And there is NOTHING new here. loads of handsets are only available through one operator. its only highlighted now because the product is so desirable by the masses.

and apple screwed no-one.. offered a product, people bought. no stealing, got what you thought you would get. Update brick your phone? I know of people who got a replacement, but apple can refuse if you hacked it. Show me one report of someone with an genuine one, that was bricked and then refused service..please.

and before the fanboi flames start, yes i use apple products, but i also think apple have messed up with the iphone. Wrong business model. And guess what? MY mind says that even though i want it and want it open, it isnt, so i wont buy it.

Brains , people, use them.... now repeat after me.. "We are ALL individuals"

Apple sure knows how to make microsoft look great!

I purchased my iphone at the applestore and was never given a contract to sign. I used a unlocking program which bypassed any electronic agreement, never even saw one. I understand that I voided warranty.I will refuse to update my phone till there is a work around fo it.I do have a problem with apple possibly destroying the phone. apple also made a change in the dock connector. it looks the same as the older ones but some of the older accessories won't work.Apple wants you to buy a new one. Example it works but with errors with my 2 month old alpine car stereo, and not with my home dock av hook up. Just when I thought I would switch over to apple I learned that they were no better than Big bad microsoft. I guess microsoft is not that bad , thanks apple. Atleast microsoft lets me modify its products that I bu from them, I can always upgrade a pc and swap parts not apple they want you to throw it away and buy a new one.

Don't like Apple's policy???

Then don't expect to get a cheap iPhone. Factoring the price of the design and software, I don't see how Apple is making that much money per handset - UNLESS they are getting a cut of the carrier's action. And if Apple is getting a cut of the action, then they certainly have the right to limit you to THAT network if they sell you a subsidized phone.

Suppose Apple hadn't locked the handset, but had instead built that profit into the phone purchase price - and set it at $1200+ per handset. Then you would all scream about how poorly Apple had set the pricing, how they had missed their core markets, blah blah blah. Apple has spared you the embarassment of not being able to affort the entire cost upfront, and has spread it to time payments...and all you can do is scream about how they lock you in to do so.

That's the problem with the world today, everyone expects something for nothing...grow up.

Hit them in their pockets

It's simple!

Don't buy it, vote with your feet and hit them in their pockets.

I was going to buy this phone on release with T-Mobile or O2 but the fact it's severely locked down means I won't now and some other phone manufacturer will get my money.

It's no good buying one, unlocking it then whioning it won't work after an update - they want to restrict their phones and not allow them to be unlocked then fine it's their choice and their product just as my money is mine and I will choose where to spend it.

If no one buys their fancy looking underperforming and limited features set phone then they will have to re-think it won't they.

Pay up or piss off

The problem with all the whining maggots that want to use the iPhone unlocked is they want an iPhone at a massive discount and then they want to stick in a SIM from Joe Smoke Mobile and pay the very least they can get away with. In other words, a lot of cheap eBay-grazing bastards want a very expensive phone for nothing. This is the same streak-of-piss logic from the same people that want all their music and movies for free or for 1 penny a century or something like that. Look, you're a consumer and you exist for other people to exploit. Just get used to that.

First the iPhone exists to make money. Second, unlocked phones and all that bullshit are just pushing up the prices for everyone else because people are getting massively subsidised phones on deals they know they're going to defraud. Third, the iPhone absolutely defines that vacant consumer greed of people having demands they have no means of paying for.

All this crybaby horseshit of wanting the EU to step in to get you a cheap iPhone is an utter perversion of justice, the law and democracy. These forums and institutions are not designed to subsidise your fucking lifestyle because you want something that fundamentally you can't afford. I can't believe how you think it's the job of the law to reduce prices on some yuppie knick-knack that only benefits a tiny minority. Be honest with yourself, you want this as a status symbol, you want it to impress your mates with and you want it to help pretend that you're something you aren't. You aren't Bill Gates or Steve Jobs, you work on a helpdesk for Christ's sake.

The fucking sheep people strike again.